New developments coming this summer

[Mark at EXO]

@Mark at EXO @V2Pnutrition - Thank you both for your feedback on the pieces. I think it allows the OV to not come across as biased while also having questions answered from people who have actually worn the garments. Good stuff...

I have one more for you guys. The Sitka Ambient (original 1/2 zip hoody version) seems to be the clear competitor to the OV mid layer. For those of us who wear that and really like it - what is the OV midlayer bringing to the table that the Ambient doesn't? The two potential things that stick out to me are the grid fleece sections and the thumb loops. It's nit-picky but the cuffs on the Ambient are kind of odd. Sounds like maybe the OV piece runs a little cooler as well? Interested in your feedback.

Kyle answered this well already, and I agree with him that the OG Ambient became too warm too often and is more limited in use. I also agree with you that the Ambient cuffs are odd, and the lack of thumb loops is a miss.

After using the original Ambient, I realized that a body-mapped version would be better — not only for more breathability and less warmth in core areas, but also to reduce bulk under a pack. I started chatting with Brigham about this before/around the time that Sitka released their short-lived UL Ambient. The fit/execution of that UL Ambient was poor; it didn't feel like a typical Sitka piece and maybe it never was meant to be, since it was so short-lived. (I cannot speak to the newer variants/versions of the Ambient line, as I haven't worn them.)

All in all, this new piece from OV is more versatile, less bulky, better fitting (for me), has some key features (thumb loops, good hood, deep zip), and is waaaay more affordable. I think it should be a win.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

Hi @Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals, thanks for the info. I listened to the recently released episode with Steve and Mark. I own 11 OV pieces, including the Satu pants, and have had mostly good experiences. I'm looking forward to the new line.

A couple questions on the Altura pants. The Satu pants fit me like skinny jeans in the calf and thigh, even though the waist is my size and fits loose. It's my one true gripe about them. How will the calf and thigh sizing of the Altura compare to the Satu?

Second, from my understanding the biggest blood vessels in the leg run on the inner side. So from a cooling perspective, would it make sense to put vent zips on the inside instead of the outer side of the pants? I had a pair of alpine touring pants that way years ago, and that seemed to make a meaningful difference. Perhaps there is a manufacturing reason why so many brands put zippers on the outside?

Have a great evening,
Sean

Great questions here.

The Altura pants have noticeably more room in the thigh and calf than the Satu pants. As well as more stretch (4way) , and articulated knees. The Satu pants were meant to be a city/trail dual purpose pant which meant the fit is more city than mountain. The Altura pants are mountain specific pants so they don’t have the restrictions of city aesthetic influence.

Great question related to circulation and body temp regulation. Your line of thought is sound. As was mentioned, we feel like there is too much potential for rubbing and/or chaffing in the inner thigh area due to the extra bulk of zippers. Never really seen guys get chaffing on the outer thighs, so that’s why we do the vents on the outer thighs.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

I picked up the ventus late last season to have a lightweight option. I tend to run hot so I end up carrying it more often than not until I stop. Which is why I went light as possible.

I’m happy to see this new layer come out - OV has been good to me so far. I am interested in the puffy pants @Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals as well but I think that’s not this year.

A sun hoody has been something I have felt like Goldilocks over. I’ve tried about 5 brands and haven’t found the one I like yet. The OV one was small for the size, and if it’s being reworked I’ll look forward to that too.

Yeah the puffy pants are likely next year. We’re still dialing them in, with a big consideration being how warm / how heavy. It’s surprising how many guys I talk to that don’t use puffy pants, so one of our considerations is finding a good balance of warmth and weight because we want guys to actually use them and if they’re too warm and heavy they won’t make it in the pack. If they’re not warm enough they’re also not justified to make it into the pack. Right now they’re about 9-10 ounces.

 

[Alpha Echo]

@Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals something worth considering for the future, I can only speak for myself but I'd be willing to pay an extra $25 for the pants and the active insulation layer to be factory treated with permethrin for the life of the garment, so I don't have to apply it myself. Not sure if that would impact the breathability so would be come a non-starter?

 

[AZ Gator]

@Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals something worth considering for the future, I can only speak for myself but I'd be willing to pay an extra $25 for the pants and the active insulation layer to be factory treated with permethrin for the life of the garment, so I don't have to apply it myself. Not sure if that would impact the breathability so would be come a non-starter?

Here’s another option…

Permethrin Clothing Treatment - We Treat Clothing For You

Why try spraying clothes with permethrin yourself when you can use Insect Shield’s clothing treatment service? Just send us your clothes, and we’ll treat them with permethrin for you.

www.insectshield.com

I can’t remember if this was the company I heard mentioned on Hunt Backcountry, but I think it was. If not, it was at least the same concept.

 

[Alpha Echo]

Here’s another option…

Permethrin Clothing Treatment - We Treat Clothing For You

Why try spraying clothes with permethrin yourself when you can use Insect Shield’s clothing treatment service? Just send us your clothes, and we’ll treat them with permethrin for you.

www.insectshield.com

I can’t remember if this was the company I heard mentioned on Hunt Backcountry, but I think it was. If not, it was at least the same concept.

Yeah, at $10 a garment that's a good deal. That said, I'd still be willing to pay a bit of a premium to get the clothing already treated...maybe more like $15 or 20 though.

I am still curious as to whether this kind of treatment affects fabric breathability. A quick google search seems to indicate that it does mess with DWR, according to backpacking forums.

 

[Bad Apple]

This is a great question if DWR items can receive the permethrin treatment. From their website noted cannot do water resistant items…anybody have more information?

ITEM REQUIREMENTS

• Items must be washed prior to sending for treatment.
• A pair of socks counts as 1 item.
• Only sewn garments can be treated; not unsewn fabric.
• Certain items not permitted for treatment include: undergarments, waterproof or water-resistant items, items with welded waterproof zippers, and items with care labels that read “Dry Clean Only,” “Do Not Tumble Dry,” or “Line Dry Only.”
• Our equipment is not designed to treat shoes. For effective protection, experts recommend spraying shoes once a month with Permethrin Spray.

 

[derekbart]

Looking forward to these becoming available! For the folks that have been testing the pieces, what size did you land on based on your height/weight?

We've seen a lot of pics of you guys testing and this might help people dial in their sizing.

 

[ezwy]

@ezwy

Definitely the short guy version at 5'6", haha!

I normally buy a 29" or 30" inseam for reference.

I wondered at first, but never found that to be the case at all. And never felt like they were too long during my hunts. I like them a touch longer for hunts so I don't have stuff migrating into my boots/shoes. These seemed perfect.

I believe @Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals made a few changes to the final iteration of these, but hopefully this gives you a good idea of how things look on the pants. I forgot I had these in the archives.

That means you have a solid inch of height on me! On the active insulation piece did you wear a medium?

 

[V2Pnutrition]

That means you have a solid inch of height on me! On the active insulation piece did you wear a medium?

I didn’t. I ran a small. I’ll be ordering g the same with the added fabric on the final version.

Depending on what you are interested in/how you like fit, I’d steer your towards the same size in the puffy, too if you’re a little shorter than me. I had a medium in that and found it fit really well over other layers; maybe a hair more generous than I might usually wear. If you’re familiar with their sizing, the medium seemed to fit like a small in their Nova Pro.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

Looking forward to these becoming available! For the folks that have been testing the pieces, what size did you land on based on your height/weight?

We've seen a lot of pics of you guys testing and this might help people dial in their sizing.

I’m 5’6”, 145lb.

Pants: 30/30.
Midweight: Small
Puffy: Medium

 

[Ajsomp]

I didn’t. I ran a small. I’ll be ordering g the same with the added fabric on the final version.

Depending on what you are interested in/how you like fit, I’d steer your towards the same size in the puffy, too if you’re a little shorter than me. I had a medium in that and found it fit really well over other layers; maybe a hair more generous than I might usually wear. If you’re familiar with their sizing, the medium seemed to fit like a small in their Nova Pro.

So given the current sizing of the ventus - I found the ventus very athletic fitting. Which is fine for a midlayer. But I’m wondering if the puffy will run smaller as well. I’m 6’1 and 220 so normally XL fits great - but if it’s a puffy it’s definitely going over layers. It seems like this is taken into account vs the nova pro? Is that a fair assessment?

 

[V2Pnutrition]

So given the current sizing of the ventus - I found the ventus very athletic fitting. Which is fine for a midlayer. But I’m wondering if the puffy will run smaller as well. I’m 6’1 and 220 so normally XL fits great - but if it’s a puffy it’s definitely going over layers. It seems like this is taken into account vs the nova pro? Is that a fair assessment?

No one will be able to answer this better than the man who designed them, @Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals .

My experience in the OV products has been this:

The Nova Pro in a small was a very generous fit (in a good way…) and I had no issues layering under it. In fact, of all the jackets I’ve bought and sold over the years, it’s one I’ve kept for this very reason.

I had the Nova UL, too. The small on it was a little too athletic, so I swapped it (and the Ventus and the Vario) for a medium. They all had a similar fit to the pro after “sizing up”.

My prototype of the new puffy was a medium and I would compare that to the similar fit found on the Nova Pro (not too baggy, easy to layer, etc.).

The final versions may have slight adjustments in sizing/material than our proto’s, which I’m sure Brigham can answer.

 

[Mark at EXO]

So given the current sizing of the ventus - I found the ventus very athletic fitting. Which is fine for a midlayer. But I’m wondering if the puffy will run smaller as well. I’m 6’1 and 220 so normally XL fits great - but if it’s a puffy it’s definitely going over layers. It seems like this is taken into account vs the nova pro? Is that a fair assessment?

Yes, a fair assessment.

I'd say the Ventus runs on the small size — especially as an over-layering piece. The new puffy is more generously cut/sized than the Ventus of the same size, and you won't need to size up to use the new puffy for layering over base and mid-layers.

I am 6' 2" and am in the mid-180s. All of my puffy samples have been in a Large Tall in the new puffy and it has been roomy without being too baggy. It sounds like an XL would be right for your height/weight.

 

[sivart]

What size pant do you wear? I'm same build as you

 

[Mark at EXO]

A better look at the fit for you guys. The only selfie video I'm willing to shoot, so don't ask for more. Haha!

 

[sivart]

thanks Mark

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

So given the current sizing of the ventus - I found the ventus very athletic fitting. Which is fine for a midlayer. But I’m wondering if the puffy will run smaller as well. I’m 6’1 and 220 so normally XL fits great - but if it’s a puffy it’s definitely going over layers. It seems like this is taken into account vs the nova pro? Is that a fair assessment?

Yes, the puffy is designed to fit over baselayers and midlayers. It's not athletic fitting like the Ventus. If Xl is normally your size then the puffy in XL will be your size, and allow layering.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

Yeah, at $10 a garment that's a good deal. That said, I'd still be willing to pay a bit of a premium to get the clothing already treated...maybe more like $15 or 20 though.

I am still curious as to whether this kind of treatment affects fabric breathability. A quick google search seems to indicate that it does mess with DWR, according to backpacking forums.

Most chemical finishes or treatments applied to fabric can affect breathability. Chemical treatments also don't always work well with each other. Although it kind of seems like an a la carte menu, where you can just choose what treatment to apply, it doesn't usually work that way.

Permethrin treatment might not work well with DWR treated fabric. DWR doesn't work well with some anti-bacterial or anti-odor treatments. Sometimes this means that 2 treatments are just incompatible with each other and can't be applied together. Sometimes it means that any of the treatments done in combination are less effective than they would be on their own. Most of these treatments have an adverse affect on breathability.

 

[Actionsqueak]

Do you guys have an update for us on when the pants will be available for preorder? I listened to the EXO podcast about these and I'm excited to try these as I've yet to find the perfect hunting pants. I am used to super durable rock climbing pants but wanted something with the hip/thigh vents, better colors for hunting (most of my climbing pants are brighter colors or too light of a gray color), minimal pockets, and slightly more waterproof material than my climbing pants.