New cook stove on the market

[BBob]

Not sure where the irritation is coming from, but that's fine.

I’m not irritated if that’s what you’re alluding to. I’m trying to provide info that I’ve actually tested and have gleaned from what others have tested. You’ve been talking in untested generalities so….. I’m adding tested information.

What's the system you have created by cutting off the capacity you don't want?

Plenty of guys on this and other forums have taken Jetboil pots and cut them down to 600ish ml capacity to cut bulk and weight. If you’re good with using the extra for other stuff then it works for you. Just stating what others have done. My hybrids are all 600 ish ml capacity with no alterations. Optimized for one person for one meal.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Definitely, one person one meal is a legitimate setup. The engineering folks put into work around solutions is pretty cool. I am of the mentality of not only hunting but also off-season excursions backpacking into the High Country. Typically I don't go out by myself, it's with a few other people. Like I said, the engineering folks put into the smallest and lightest system shows Ingenuity at its best.

 

[BBob]

The Neville Brothers have certainly created a unique system, the engineering simplicity of a multi-sided pot is pretty genius when you think about it. Easier to manufacture, and of a design to hold all of the components.

And they didn't have to cut anything off to save 3 oz and be limited to half the pot size.

Yes, they’ve created a nice setup for guys that don’t want to fool with researching and or building a hybrid. They said that was their impetus to do it. I hope it flys for them.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Crap, about time to get off all of the pontification that is outside of the realm of helping these guys do their best.

 

[schwaf]

I’m not irritated if that’s what you’re alluding to. I’m trying to provide info that I’ve actually tested and have gleaned from what others have tested. You’ve been talking in untested generalities so….. I’m adding tested information.

I wouldn't say untested. Just came to a different conclusion based on my needs. We use our gear in the field, not in labs. I've seen and experienced too much crap failing out there, and made adjustments accordingly. Compared to what people carried in the 70's, our gear is literally space age in weight and capability. I'll be fine if my pack weighs a couple extra pounds compared to ultralite spreadsheet Jimbo.

Back on topic, I do like that this roughridge is useful as individual pieces. Burner will work with any pot, and pot will work with any burner. Sometimes things break and you gotta adapt.

 

[Dobermann]

I think the point of this rough ridge stove is to offer a hybrid for your needs without needing to piece together all the random parts into a frankenstein cook kit.

My .02: I think a 'turnkey' solution (or multiple turnkey solutions for various scenarios), is a great idea. I, too, hope this venture works for them.

But I also think we need to be wary of using words like 'Frankenstein' as if that suggests that there's something difficult or problematic about piecing together your own cooking solution: it's pretty simple - and very cheap - to put together an ultralight, and efficient, HX stove system: Soto Windmaster ($70), tri-flex adapter ($10.45), and Petrel G3 (currently US$15 at the introductory special direct from FireMaple, or $24 from their US site) - or the more efficient Jet Boil Stash pot, handle, and lid, direct from JB's parts service (about $50 from memory).

So: about $95 for the G3 + Soto system and $120 for the Stash + Soto system plus whatever spoon (not spork, as others have noted ... it's not 1997 any more) you want, and you're done.

 

[DeePow]

Along those lines and back to the Jetboil comment. Rokslide has debated the Jetboil anti thing in the past and no one ever came up with why Jetboil is anti hunting. Nothing was ever confirmed or shown that they were. They might be but they’ve never said that. If I’m wrong show me.

This doesn’t mean they’re Pro 2A but they are a higher tier sponsor of BHA so it is safe to say they aren’t anti-2A as they give money to a hunting organization

 

[alexnelon]

About 5 out of 7 pages of this thread are just going back and forth about the price.

It could all be avoided if @Chris Neville just does what S2H and T&K have done: tell us what your margins are, ie how much money goes into your pocket per stove after cost and debt servicing (not including marketing budget), and if they're reasonable we're done with that topic.

The trepidation at the price is fully justified. If firemaple can make a profit selling comparable 9oz stove systems for $55, the natural presumption is that your cost per unit is probably around $35-$40 too, but your margins are 400% where theirs are ~40%.

That's obviously not a good look, so if it's not accurate, just be transparent and then we can discuss the actual product and we'll probably buy thousands of them.

 

[BBob]

We use our gear in the field, not in labs. I've seen and experienced too much crap failing out there, and made adjustments accordingly. Compared to what people carried in the 70's, our gear is literally space age in weight and capability. I'll be fine if my pack weighs a couple extra pounds compared to ultralite spreadsheet Jimbo.

Yessir! Not only tested but all that I’ve stated has been proved out and used in the field.

Speaking of the 70’s. I still have the stove I carried backpacking as a teenager. Solid steel Coleman Peak 1 Backpacking stove It still works. I’ve been through and still have tons of stoves and pots since then.

 

[Chris Neville]

@alexnelon We appreciate the question.

We can say clearly that we are not operating anywhere near a 400% margin. That simply is not the reality. Our margins fall within a normal small business range, and a large portion of that goes right back into building, improving, and supporting the product.

We also understand we are not going to compete with large scale factory direct manufacturers like FireMaple on price. They operate at a scale and cost structure that is very different from ours. If there were a way for us to build this system at a lower price while maintaining the same standards, design, and quality, we would.

Our cook system is not an off the shelf product with a different logo added. It is a system we designed and built from the ground up for backcountry hunters, produced in small batches with tight quality control.

It will not be the cheapest option on the market. It is built to be reliable, durable, and made to last.

At the end of the day, everyone has to decide what makes sense for their hunts and their budget. We respect that. Our commitment is simply to build the best product possible.

 

[Dobermann]

About 5 out of 7 pages of this thread are just going back and forth about the price.

It could all be avoided if @Chris Neville just does what S2H and T&K have done: tell us what your margins are, ie how much money goes into your pocket per stove after cost and debt servicing (not including marketing budget), and if they're reasonable we're done with that topic.

The trepidation at the price is fully justified. If firemaple can make a profit selling comparable 9oz stove systems for $55, the natural presumption is that your cost per unit is probably around $35-$40 too, but your margins are 400% where theirs are ~40%.

That's obviously not a good look, so if it's not accurate, just be transparent and then we can discuss the actual product and we'll probably buy thousands of them.

Two quick things:

Roughridge aren't under any obligations to share their costs or margins - it's up to them to set a price that works for them, and the buyers to decide if that works for them.

If by referencing a 'comparable' FireMaple at $55, you're referring to the Quickboil, I'd be surprised if that would be a good comparison to the Roughridge - the Roughridge has 50% more capacity; people have said they needed to sand/grind the bottom of the Quickboil just to get it to sit well on the burner; the Quickboil doesn't have a piezo igniter ... and more.

And just to be clear: I'm not defending Roughridge here - just pointing out that if we're going to make comparisons and critique, then we need to be accurate and fair.

 

[alexnelon]

Two quick things:

Roughridge aren't under any obligations to share their costs or margins - it's up to them to set a price that works for them, and the buyers to decide if that works for them.

If by referencing a 'comparable' FireMaple at $55, you're referring to the Quickboil, I'd be surprised if that would be a good comparison to the Roughridge - the Roughridge has 50% more capacity; people have said they needed to sand/grind the bottom of the Quickboil just to get it to sit well on the burner; the Quickboil doesn't have a piezo igniter ... and more.

And just to be clear: I'm not defending Roughridge here - just pointing out that if we're going to make comparisons and critique, then we need to be accurate and fair.

Both fair points, of course.

I'm not trying to press them about it or anything. They have a unique product, they can charge whatever they think people will pay. It's not like Peax or GoHunt slapping a brand sticker on existing alibaba products and calling it premium.

But when the entire thread is basically derailed due to sticker shock, seems like it would be pretty easy to say "Hey we think this product is so good and so valuable in the space we put in $300k out of pocket for tooling and production to bring it to market. If these take off we might be able to scale up and get cost down, but right now it costs us $180 to put one on your doorstep, so we have to price it accordingly"

So that we can actually talk about the stove and why sporks are inferior instead of 5 pages of "Oof, trying to retire early huh"

 

[mtnwrunner]

Hey, I have an idea. Why don't we wait until a few testers try one out and see how they do?
And please stop going back and forth to one up somebody.
I also don't understand why some of you think a company should share their margins or business model with some forum member on the internet.
Look at the product, do your research and either buy it or don't.

Randy