New cartridge and can’t decide.

[atmat]

If you’re using it as a trainer, too, I’d consider something with better barrel life such a 6arc.

 

[Cdnance]

That’s my dilemma. Both feel like the right choice. Maybe I’m thinking about this wrong. Maybe I just buy both. Haha


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This is always the correct answer!

 

[hereinaz]

Makes sense.

Guys I know shooting .25 Creedmoor either compete at 600+ or need to make Power Factor for NRL Hunter.

Yeah, there are marginal reasons. Competition, the trace and splash give benefits with 25 cal weight over the smaller 6mm. The higher BC of the 133 offsets the lower velocity of the 25. The minimal extra recoil is countered by heavy rifles. Some are switching over for those reasons.

NRL Hunter requires 25 cal for power factor unless you run a .243/6 creed factory rifle that is exempt.

Many of these differences are barely noticed by the vast majority of shooters.

For hunting inside the 400-500 self imposed limits, it’s six of one or half dozen of the other…

 

[mtnbound]

I’m in the market for a new cartridge. I’m really considering a 6 creed or a 25 creed. Would be used as a hunting rifle and training. Currently working on getting more proficient at distances beyond 300.


I know there is a lot that goes into a decision but which cartridge would you pick between the two?

I really like the 6 creed for the lower recoil but I really like the 25 creed for a larger grain bullet.

Ideally I would like this in an 18-20” barrel and will be shooting suppressed.


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An animal will not know the difference between a 6CM or a 25CM.

6CM will have a few pounds less recoil.

Both will require reloading to maximize their performance in a short barrel.

Both can have short barrel life if you reload them hot. Probably less life with a 6CM.

How often do you realistically shoot now?
500rds a year?
1000rds a year?
More?Less?

You mention shooting beyond 300, what’s your goal as far as distance?

 

[Marbles]

I don't think there is enough difference between the two.

6 Creed
+lower recoil
+More available ammunition
+Faster starting velocity
-Shorter barrel life
-Lower BC bullets

Reverse those for the 25 Creed

Both will kill the same with the correct bullet at the correct velocity. Run a ballistics app and see if both will take you to the edge of your capability.

I would get a 223 for training if you will be doing any sort of volume. Much better barrel life and lower ammo costs per round. Just be careful, you might end up like me where the 223 goes hunting and the 243 stays in the safe.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I don't think there is enough difference between the two.

6 Creed
+lower recoil
+More available ammunition
+Faster starting velocity
-Shorter barrel life
-Lower BC bullets

Reverse those for the 25 Creed

Both will kill the same with the correct bullet at the correct velocity. Run a ballistics app and see if both will take you to the edge of your capability.

I would get a 223 for training if you will be doing any sort of volume. Much better barrel life and lower ammo costs per round. Just be careful, you might end up like me where the 223 goes hunting and the 243 stays in the safe.

The Commonwealth of Virginia keeps me from having the problem you mentioned in your last sentence.

PS - good post.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Mountainrancher]

Honestly man, coming from a guy that’s building a 25 there is just no reason not to go with the 6 at this point. It’s lighter recoiling, higher velocity, and has more ammo options. The only reason to build a 25 is because the quarter bore is by far the coolest bore.

 

[Long84]

I have been real happy with my 6creed.

 

[Pilsner]

Yeah, there are marginal reasons. Competition, the trace and splash give benefits with 25 cal weight over the smaller 6mm. The higher BC of the 133 offsets the lower velocity of the 25. The minimal extra recoil is countered by heavy rifles. Some are switching over for those reasons.

NRL Hunter requires 25 cal for power factor unless you run a .243/6 creed factory rifle that is exempt.

Many of these differences are barely noticed by the vast majority of shooters.

For hunting inside the 400-500 self imposed limits, it’s six of one or half dozen of the other…

"NRL Hunter requires 25 cal for power factor unless you run a .243/6 creed factory rifle that is exempt"
Explain please? Is there as circumstance where I can use my factory 6 creed AND make PF for NRL-H?
Thanks,
Doc

 

[mtnbound]

"NRL Hunter requires 25 cal for power factor unless you run a .243/6 creed factory rifle that is exempt"
Explain please? Is there as circumstance where I can use my factory 6 creed AND make PF for NRL-H?
Thanks,
Doc

"c. There is no minimum Power Factor (PF) for the Factory division, however the Factory Division hunter’s PF will be used in the case of a tiebreaker. Factory rifles chambered in 6mm/.243 or greater, with a cartridge overall length of 2.700″ or greater (per SAAMI-ANSI Max cartridge length standards), with a maximum muzzle velocity of 3275, will be allowed only in the Factory Division."

 

[Pilsner]

"c. There is no minimum Power Factor (PF) for the Factory division, however the Factory Division hunter’s PF will be used in the case of a tiebreaker. Factory rifles chambered in 6mm/.243 or greater, with a cartridge overall length of 2.700″ or greater (per SAAMI-ANSI Max cartridge length standards), with a maximum muzzle velocity of 3275, will be allowed only in the Factory Division."

*tips hat*
While I downloaded the rule PDF before going to watch my first match, I missed that one. Thank ya.
-Doc

 

[hereinaz]

"NRL Hunter requires 25 cal for power factor unless you run a .243/6 creed factory rifle that is exempt"
Explain please? Is there as circumstance where I can use my factory 6 creed AND make PF for NRL-H?
Thanks,
Doc

You got the rule for the factory 243/6mm exception.

The power factor number is “bullet weight x velocity”, with the max velocity limitation no 6mm bullet weighs enough. The new 25 bulllets have enough weight. The number and power factor was devised so 6mm could not be used. Mostly to require more realistic calibers to prevent the gaming in NRL and PRS and to try to encourage hunting rifles.

Pretty sure the .243/6mm factory rule was not original, and implemented later.

 

[Libtard McSocalist]

If you don’t reload get the 6mm. If you don’t then that’s a non issue. Personally I don’t understand the recent quarter bore madness. If a 6.5 cm has too much recoil for you with a 143/144 class bullet then how is the answer to shoot a 135? The difference in recoil even in 14pound NRL rifles is mininmal. It’s there but it’s not huge and unless you’re trying to watch trace in matches I just don’t get it. Going from a 143/144 class bullet to a 105/108 however IS less recoil.

 

[hereinaz]

If you don’t reload get the 6mm. If you don’t then that’s a non issue. Personally I don’t understand the recent quarter bore madness. If a 6.5 cm has too much recoil for you with a 143/144 class bullet then how is the answer to shoot a 135? The difference in recoil even in 14pound NRL rifles is mininmal. It’s there but it’s not huge and unless you’re trying to watch trace in matches I just don’t get it. Going from a 143/144 class bullet to a 105/108 however IS less recoil.

It’s not recoil driven.

Going to .25 gets you the BC of a 156 in 6.5 with higher velocity. Mildly reduced recoil is an add on benefit.

The difference in ballistics between the 143 and 133 out of the Creedmoor case is significant enough for wind and drop when talking competitions. The difference in recoil from a 156 down to a 133, while still not huge, it makes a difference when shooting on the clock in alternative positions all day. Many shooters still use a brake because it reduces recoil just that much more than a suppressor—never catch me using a brake again.

 

[schmidty3]

Another vote for a 6 creed....

And another comment on NRL. Blah blah...

I just built a 25 prc. Currently shooting 135s at 3000 with a mild load (23.25"). Pretty sure It'll speed up to 3100.

I also have a 25 creed barrel on order. A 28" carbon six for NRL .

The 25 creed is a sweet round. I just don't see it catching on en mass. 25s never do. I see it as a NRL/reloader's niche (factory option may always be limited and may die off). If it didn't hit nrl power factor I don't think it would be a saami cartridge now.

But now I really want to build a super light short barreled 6 creed (or 22 creed) for hunting when i look up at a mountain (and it's steeper then id like!).

I also have never had a 25. And I think it's a really cool caliber. I also think in a prc sized case it's a monster combo.

*inserts picture of 135 berger on a depredation doe at 130 yards yesterday. Entry side under the shoulder. Quartering too shot. Lung chunks pulled out when i removed said shoulder

 

[TradLife406]

Can you use a 22 cal? I was looking at the 6 Creed but the 22 edges it out by a tad. Absolutely spanks the 6.5 creed. So went that route for Montana.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

.25 cal
134gr ELD-M G1 .645
128gr ELD-X G1 .633

6mm
109gr ELD-X G1 .585
108gr ELX-X G1 .536
Does someone have figures for the 115 DTACs? I don't see any BC figures on Tubb's website.
The forthcoming 117gr S2H special has the potential to change the game here.

I meant that all the 6mm of the same weight will naturally have higher BCs.

 

[nm.otter]

I meant that all the 6mm of the same weight will naturally have higher BCs.

OK, that makes sense.

 

[Libtard McSocalist]

It’s not recoil driven.

Going to .25 gets you the BC of a 156 in 6.5 with higher velocity. Mildly reduced recoil is an add on benefit.

The difference in ballistics between the 143 and 133 out of the Creedmoor case is significant enough for wind and drop when talking competitions. The difference in recoil from a 156 down to a 133, while still not huge, it makes a difference when shooting on the clock in alternative positions all day. Many shooters still use a brake because it reduces recoil just that much more than a suppressor—never catch me using a brake again.

factually incorrect my man. a 135 hybrid 25 cal does not have the BC of a 153.5 hybrid or a 156 and you can push the equal BC of a 144 hybrid faster or faster than a 25 CM can’t a 135. My point stands.


Regardless a 6mm 110 Sierra can run faster with a comparable BC to the 25s. My point is factually correct. If people want to try the quarter bores because they are cool and new there’s nothing wrong with it. But it does neither recoil nor wind drift better than what’s around it. It’s a nice betweener but that is all.

 

[willfrye027]

The 6 creed is easier/more pleasant to shoot than 25 creed.

Have both, essentially identical builds/barrel length/weight. There is a noticable step down in recoil with the 6mm. More than I expected. I’m shooting 26” bare muzzle and the 25 is right on the edge of comfortable, the 6mm is a joy to shoot. Totally fine at the range but I’ve had a couple animals where I didnt see my impact and should have with the 25 (due to my own sloppy position, but the 6mm is more forgiving regardless).

Both shooting similar loads, 109eld vs 134eld, the 25 creedmoor has a slight edge on paper that I am unable to replicate practicing at 1000 yards. Essentially, a wash.

I do love my 25 creedmoor and will shoot this barrel out, but 6mm is for my uses more practical and comfortable to shoot.