New Alaska Draw System Idea

[LivinGood]

Good luck changing that…. Not to points anyhow. Also, I don’t believe it’s a Board of Game function to decide even if proposed but may be wrong.

It’s a BOG decision. That’s how the system evolved to where it is now. Used to only be 1 choice per hunt number and 3 choices per species. There was a proposal a year or 2 ago to up the the chances from 6 to 10 or 12 and the BOG shot it down because it catered to people with more money to spend.

 

[LivinGood]

You’re essentially proposing a slight variation of what has been proven to not work in just about every western state. Consider learning about the other states draw systems and their failings first.

Just spit balling an idea… be cool.

 

[Bubblehide]

Wish I'd known this a long time ago. Packing my bags for Alaska now!

 

[LivinGood]

I thought about it, what you came up with.

I don’t want it to change.
My only complaint with the AK is that so many put in for hunts and draw that they won’t actually go and hunt.

I don’t suppose that’s as much of a problem as down outside. I would like to see a penalty for non use of a draw tag. Something like, if you don’t hunt your draw tag, you forfeit that draw next year.. But I’d have no clue how to implement that fairly. Perhaps proof of travel?

Maybe an intent to hunt requirement for all tags? They do it for Muskox and Kodiak bear tags. Why not for all? Probably won’t amount to a ton of tags transferred but would be some.

 

[LivinGood]

First of all. What kinda self respecting Alaskan says there’s nothing to do in late winter? This is literally the best time of year. No tourists, no seasonal work dickheads. Snows deep days keep getting longer. It was below zero up on top in turnagain today and we had a blast.
Your missing out man.

As for your main point. No. Out side of bison and musk ox all the draw is good for is close to town slam dunk hunts.

I was being sarcastic. There’s always something to do!
Bison and muskox could be a good test run for this type of system. Can’t get much lower then less than 1%! And with bison being 1 tag every 10 years, once someone loses their points they are out of the mix for a decade.

 

[ladogg411]

Surely no one in AK game and fish would look at the point debacle across the western US and think they want any part in that nonsense.

I think many states would love to unwind their point programs and go 100% random.

 

[LivinGood]

Washington, Nevada, Montana to name a few. And as soon as the point system starts applicants will double or triple because nobody wants to be left behind in a points system. At some point a bonus system like you are talking about will fail because the amount of points any individual is adding each year will be completely offset by the total amount of points added to the system. In essence odds only start to go down after a few years


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What’s The draw % on a Nevada bighorn tag? As bad as a delta bison tag at less than 1%?
I would wager there are more applicants in Nevadas system than Alaska’s. Which would add more points into their system and overall not changing the odds much.

 

[LivinGood]

Surely no one in AK game and fish would look at the point debacle across the western US and think they want any part in that nonsense.

I think many states would love to unwind their point programs and go 100% random.

I think there is a way to do a rewards point system and not screw everything up. Maybe it’s not as simple as carrying over your choices from year to year but there’s a way to implement a system that is fair but rewards people who are in it for the long haul.

 

[ladogg411]

I think there is a way to do a rewards point system and not screw everything up. Maybe it’s not as simple as carrying over your choices from year to year but there’s a way to implement a system that is fair but rewards people who are in it for the long haul.

Nope. Every known system has its critics.

Fair to who? That is where the arguing begins.

Random has its critics also. But alot of us dream of random.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I thought about it, what you came up with.

I don’t want it to change.
My only complaint with the AK is that so many put in for hunts and draw that they won’t actually go and hunt.

I don’t suppose that’s as much of a problem as down outside. I would like to see a penalty for non use of a draw tag. Something like, if you don’t hunt your draw tag, you forfeit that draw next year.. But I’d have no clue how to implement that fairly. Perhaps proof of travel?

Many of the draws don’t allow two years in a row. The hunt we put in for doesn’t. So this year I’m doing registration. Next year I’ll put in for the draw. Its also a 100% chance I’m drawing it. So I always win that draw. Only spend $5 on it too.

 

[ladogg411]

What’s The draw % on a Nevada bighorn tag? As bad as a delta bison tag at less than 1%?

At zero points (squared), try less than 0.1%

At max points (squared bonus points) a 28 point NR applicant for NV desert ram is still only at about 2% for a top ram tag. And has 29 years and thousands invested.

Point systems make big bucks for addicted states. And those with preference point components are simply ponzi schemes.

 

[LivinGood]

What about one point awarded per applicant per year? No matter how many hunts you put in for. The rest of the system stays the same as it is now, up to six choices per species and totally random. You can bank your one point a year and use it on any species you choose when you want. What AK species do you think most would burn their years worth of points on? Your points disappear whether you draw or not. Just like your $$! How about that? Fair for all?

 

[LivinGood]

At zero points (squared), try less than 0.1%

At max points (squared bonus points) a 28 point NR applicant for NV desert ram is still only at about 2% for a top ram tag. And has 29 years and thousands invested.

Point systems make big bucks for addicted states. And those with preference point components are simply ponzi schemes.

I think an AK residents chances of drawing a delta bison tag are about 0.1% anyhow. Up to 50 tags available this year and about 40,000 applicants most likely.

 

[z987k]

No. Keep it random.

 

[ladogg411]

I think an AK residents chances of drawing a delta bison tag are about 0.1% anyhow. Up to 50 tags available this year and about 40,000 applicants most likely.

Delta bison was 0.3% last year.

If I was an AK resident, I would want 90/10 on premium tags, not a point system.

 

[MountainTracker]

Another thing that isn’t really talked about with the point system is the hunter who is now eligible to apply for hunts. Like children reaching the hunting age limit. In a point system there is almost no chance of ever being drawn bc they are so far behind in the system, and the guys who still haven’t drawn with mass points keep putting in even though they physically may not be able to hunt. So once the older generation of points phase out the new generation is starting to get to old, and so on.

Bison and muskox have been referenced multi times, their draw odds are in some units are better than what a goat or sheep hunt would be in most other states and most of those states have a point system. As a guy who has been putting in for tags in multiple states for over 10 years I can say without reservations point systems ultimately don’t benefit the large majority, like anything that gets inflated.


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[YellCoAR]

Why does everyone always want to try and create an advantage to obtain a tag. Random draw is just fine with me. Just go where you can buy a hunt. Sure those places cost a lot more money, Just like the old buy a seat on the air plane money scam. Get in early and take the money of those behind you.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

to re-echo what the knowledgeable guys have already told you: point systems suck, for everyone, no matter how they are done. Every idea that has been proposed in this thread for a "better" point system has already been tried by a state in the lower 48 - and has proven to suck for end users, everyone who doesn't get in on the ground floor, and most of the people who do get in at the outset.

advocating for a point system where one does not currently exist is greedy, selfish, and uninformed.

 

[dallen]

What about one point awarded per applicant per year? No matter how many hunts you put in for. The rest of the system stays the same as it is now, up to six choices per species and totally random. You can bank your one point a year and use it on any species you choose when you want. What AK species do you think most would burn their years worth of points on? Your points disappear whether you draw or not. Just like your $$! How about that? Fair for all?

So, what is your goal for proposing a point system? If it’s to increase YOUR odds of drawing a sweet tag, then it may work for you once…but once you burn your points you’ll be sitting out for the next decade or three trying to catch back up. Random draw gets my vote. My daughter drew a TMA tag the very first year she applied….I’ve put in for 30 and still haven’t drawn. Likewise, I drew a delta bison my first year of applying…….only in a random system can you have outcomes like this.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

 

[SaltySailor]

No, I don't want my kids to be screwed over waiting to pull valuable tags for decades because some people too fat/old to hunt the tag when they win it have a million points in front of them. Leave it random.