need advice: distance of scope from eye and how much do you stretch when shooting rifle?

[raisins]

This is the first time I've mounted my own scope on a high powered deer rifle (on 22 LRs and 5.56s I've put scopes on there's not enough recoil for the issue below to have come up). This is a Tikka Superlite in 6.5 Creedmoor. It has a Trijicon Credo 3-9X40 scope on it mounted with a 1 piece DNZ game reaper mount. I have torque wrench, Wheeler leveling kit, and gun vise. And the mechanics of all that and squaring the reticle is not problem.

I always felt on my other deer rifles (all given to me with scopes already on) that on the highest scope power I really had to overly stretch to get rid of the black ring around the sight picture. I read that you should set the scope on highest power and shoulder it naturally and set the scope as far away as you can and still get a clear picture in that posture.

That's what I did and it forced me to set the front scope ring 1/8" from the front objective bell because I didn't want to mess with bedding a pic rail and then using 2 piece mounts that I would probably want to lap. Wanting to keep it simple.

This worked fine until I got my new Tenebraex scope covers and went to the range today. These are the ones that need a friction fit adapter for this scope and so the ring cover when open adds at least about 0.667 inches to the back of the scope. These things are chunky and overbuilt.

I was shooting relaxed with my nondominant hand on the rear sand bag and squeezing off surprise shots.

EVERY single shot the ring of the Tenebraex scope cover at least touched my nose/glasses/brow. And one time it hit it pretty good...no blood though.

I know I'm going to get a flinch if I keep this up.

With the way the scope is set now, I feel I am so relaxed and not straining forward to get into the scope that when it goes off that all the slack being taken up in my body (because I'm not stretched forward) allows the scope to slide back a bit much.

I like the clear scope covers and wanted them because I hunt in some nasty weather sometimes. But it seems my options are: get rid of the Tenebraex rear scope cover or slide my scope forward in the rings so I'm stretched out more.

Please advise. Pic of the rifle attached. There's a bubble level on the tube behind the front ring. Thanks.

 

[wind gypsy]

Should be no issue with setting the scope in the middle of the sweet spot for eye relief so there is no strain to get your head in the correct spot when shouldering the rifle.

I don’t know what you’re doing behind the rifle but don’t be a wet noodle. Rifle should be firmly against your shoulder/chest.

 

[SloppyJ]

I close my eyes and shoulder the rifle. I then open my eyes and see how the scope is looking and adjust from there. I've never hit by my scope. Sounds like some shooting technique issues.

I've had the opposite problem where I can't get the scope back enough on compact designs like the NX8 2.5x20.

 

[wapitibob]

I threw my scope covers in the garbage after the 1st shot with my NX8 for that very reason. A tight eye box plus losing 1/2" + from scope covers was a bad combination. I went back to a neoprene scope cover and a scope with much better eye relief.

 

[raisins]

I threw my scope covers in the garbage after the 1st shot with my NX8 for that very reason. A tight eye box plus losing 1/2" + from scope covers was a bad combination. I went back to a neoprene scope cover and a scope with much better eye relief.

Any recommendations for scopes with longer eye relief that are around 3 to 9 power? (2 to 7 or 4 to 12 work etc)

 

[TaperPin]

A good topic.

Shooting styles differ and you’ll have to figure out what works for you in all the positions you’ll shoot from, because eye relief changes between the positions. Head position also effects how close the scope gets to an eye during recoil - a head up position that’s popular today with higher mounted scopes increases the potential for head movement, while a shooting style that stretches the neck forward helps keep the head from moving because the neck is preloaded somewhat. A solid cheek weld also makes head movement more predictable.

Wind gypsy makes a good point about not letting the rifle free recoil - what works with shoulder pressure just takes practice to figure out.

The main reason I like old fixed scopes is they have a lot of eye relief.

 

[raisins]

A good topic.

Shooting styles differ and you’ll have to figure out what works for you in all the positions you’ll shoot from, because eye relief changes between the positions. Head position also effects how close the scope gets to an eye during recoil - a head up position that’s popular today with higher mounted scopes increases the potential for head movement, while a shooting style that stretches the neck forward helps keep the head from moving because the neck is preloaded somewhat. A solid cheek weld also makes head movement more predictable.

Wind gypsy makes a good point about not letting the rifle free recoil - what works with shoulder pressure just takes practice to figure out.

The main reason I like old fixed scopes is they have a lot of eye relief.

I set the scope distance by adjusting it to my eye relief while holding the gun off hand with my neck stretched slightly and everything pulled tight. I find that when I sit down at the bench that this same point in the eye relief of the scope now feels like my body is loose and I can more easily get a lot closer to the scope.

Does this sound typical or something diagnosable?

I'm just sitting at a private range bench without any adjustment to table top height or height of bench and plain Cabelas bags right on the bench. I'm taller than average, so I think I might be getting on top of the rifle when on the bench (seat is too high for me, so maybe I'm cowering over the gun versus tight and inline when offhand).

 

[raisins]

I threw my scope covers in the garbage after the 1st shot with my NX8 for that very reason. A tight eye box plus losing 1/2" + from scope covers was a bad combination. I went back to a neoprene scope cover and a scope with much better eye relief.

I just ordered some Butler Creek bikini covers and a neoprene Scope Coat to try out. To get everything the same as pre-scope cover as far as eye clearance, I'd have to slide the scope forward quite a bit (screwing with eye relief at that point) and I don't want that complication right now until I figure out what the heck is going on.

 

[wind gypsy]

It sounds like more of an issue of body position and recoil management. Could see how a brow or nose would be more likely to get smoked if body is heavily bladed vs square behind the rifle and if head is down low, forehead forward, reaching to get closer to scope.

Get square to the rifle and put it firmly against your shoulder. "stretching" to get in your scope shouldn't be a thing and shouldn't relate to recoil management.

Here's some videos covering shouldering your rifle and managing recoil. You may not have a bipod to load into but then instead should be pulling the rifle into your shoulder.

 

[TaperPin]

I set the scope distance by adjusting it to my eye relief while holding the gun off hand with my neck stretched slightly and everything pulled tight. I find that when I sit down at the bench that this same point in the eye relief of the scope now feels like my body is loose and I can more easily get a lot closer to the scope.

Does this sound typical or something diagnosable?

I'm just sitting at a private range bench without any adjustment to table top height or height of bench and plain Cabelas bags right on the bench. I'm taller than average, so I think I might be getting on top of the rifle when on the bench (seat is too high for me, so maybe I'm cowering over the gun versus tight and inline when offhand).

Yes and no - maybe?

Quite honestly my shooting style is older and might not match yours. I only understand shooting squared up to the target at a superficial level and if that’s your style then you should listen to the guys that shoot that way. Shooting squared up or at an angle, consistency in shoulder angle is really important because it rotates your head and neck closer or farther away from the scope.

I notice more long range shooting classes teaching to shoot off a gun range bench with the body behind the bench and not to the side to encourage staying squared up. If you shoot prone squared up I like the idea behind squaring up off the bench - squared up is more popular all the time. Either way a guy has to buy into one style or the other and not flip flop and follow online information and graphics for one style while trying to shoot the other.

If you like to angle your shoulder in general and shoot prone at an angle, then I’d say much of your problem with inconsistent eye relief is trigger time/muscle memory. The more you shoot in various positions, the more you’ll feel the correct angle off the bench. I sometimes shoot off the bench holding the forearm behind the front rest/bag in what is a natural position for me and that not only reduces muzzle jump (and scope movement) but orients my body at the correct angle.

About as good as you can get is a scope with 5” to 3-1/2” of eye relief, but many scopes today are sold off the spec sheet and guys tend to look at field of view more than eye relief, so companies aren’t always doing customers a favor by listening to what they want. There’s no way around it - you have to look at scope specs. You may also have to lose the upper magnification range, if your scope has short eye relief, and be happy with mid and low powers.

 

[wapitibob]

Any recommendations for scopes with longer eye relief that are around 3 to 9 power? (2 to 7 or 4 to 12 work etc)

I bought a Leupold. The NX8 was the first and last to have flip covers, the neoprene does everything I need.
As for stretching, you shouldn't need to do that but I use a rail on a long action. I can set the scope just about anywhere.

 

[TaperPin]

Also, if you have good shoulder angle and still feel you’re climbing the stock on the bench, raising the front rest and rear bag gets your entire body more upright and rotates away from the scope. Public ranges are notorious for having different height benches and most seem to error to the short side of the population, so especially if you’re tall, bringing it up can help a lot. While seated at the bench, hold the gun without a rest/bag at a comfortable elevation - then adjust the rest to match.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

On that first video look at how he shoots with the “slippery floor” in the second half. He’s properly controlling the gun with good mechanics. He has a large enough frame to get away with having the butt stock/toe that far “inside”. Smaller shooters will struggle and need it closer to meaty pocket area a touch more “outside”.

In the first half and “loading up” on the bipod usually leads to most shooters missing shots due to too much tension and torquing of the gun instead of the user properly manipulating the gun onto the target. He seems to be exaggerating the “preload” just to show it, and then when he goes to actually shoot he’s controlling the gun more like the second half of the video.

His non trigger arm/hand mechanics and face position are very good! Notice how he doesn’t have an aggressive “cheek weld”. This causes tons of issues in field shooting. Off hand above the bag controlling the gun folks! This one is key!

 

[wind gypsy]

Yes and no - maybe?

Quite honestly my shooting style is older and might not match yours. I only understand shooting squared up to the target at a superficial level and if that’s your style then you should listen to the guys that shoot that way. Shooting squared up or at an angle, consistency in shoulder angle is really important because it rotates your head and neck closer or farther away from the scope.

I notice more long range shooting classes teaching to shoot off a gun range bench with the body behind the bench and not to the side to encourage staying squared up. If you shoot prone squared up I like the idea behind squaring up off the bench - squared up is more popular all the time. Either way a guy has to buy into one style or the other and not flip flop and follow online information and graphics for one style while trying to shoot the other.

If you like to angle your shoulder in general and shoot prone at an angle, then I’d say much of your problem with inconsistent eye relief is trigger time/muscle memory. The more you shoot in various positions, the more you’ll feel the correct angle off the bench. I sometimes shoot off the bench holding the forearm behind the front rest/bag in what is a natural position for me and that not only reduces muzzle jump (and scope movement) but orients my body at the correct angle.

About as good as you can get is a scope with 5” to 3-1/2” of eye relief, but many scopes today are sold off the spec sheet and guys tend to look at field of view more than eye relief, so companies aren’t always doing customers a favor by listening to what they want. There’s no way around it - you have to look at scope specs. You may also have to lose the upper magnification range, if your scope has short eye relief, and be happy with mid and low powers.

In relation to this “shoulder angle” concept, I see lots of people get messed up because of the shape of most benches at ranges. In the picture below, right handed shooters often assume they should setup with the back of the rifle to their right where the stock of the closer rifle is laying on its side. Doing this gets them bladed to the side of the rifle and reduces their ability to manage recoil. Instead, it’s better to ignore that part of the bench and setup straight in front of you like where the other rifle in the picture is sitting on bipod and bags.

 

[raisins]

A lot of great information so far! I'm reading it all and have had my rifle out several times practicing inside.

 

[raisins]

It sounds like more of an issue of body position and recoil management. Could see how a brow or nose would be more likely to get smoked if body is heavily bladed vs square behind the rifle and if head is down low, forehead forward, reaching to get closer to scope.

Get square to the rifle and put it firmly against your shoulder. "stretching" to get in your scope shouldn't be a thing and shouldn't relate to recoil management.

Here's some videos covering shouldering your rifle and managing recoil. You may not have a bipod to load into but then instead should be pulling the rifle into your shoulder.

Watching this right now. I just need to do a deep dive and watch a ton of good videos before I go to the range again or move my scope in the rings.

 

[TaperPin]

In relation to this “shoulder angle” concept, I see lots of people get messed up because of the shape of most benches at ranges. In the picture below, right handed shooters often assume they should setup with the back of the rifle to their right where the stock of the closer rifle is laying on its side. Doing this gets them bladed to the side of the rifle and reduces their ability to manage recoil. Instead, it’s better to ignore that part of the bench and setup straight in front of you like where the other rifle in the picture is sitting on bipod and bags.
View attachment 755188

You’re exactly right - old shooters like me that don’t square up can’t shoot off a square bench like the rifle on the left and feel right at home with the rifle on the right. *chuckle*

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

The guy made a follow up video and in the preview he talks about how you don’t want to “overload” up on the bipod as I was mentioning above. This is a much better video than the original one. Although I did get bored and stopped it after he shot his second set.

 

[raisins]

The back of the scope starts about where the tensioning screw is visible on the bottom of the rear cover.

I had someone look at it and say that they scope was crazy far back. But I'm seeing other setups similar to that just by googling "scoped rifle".

Does it look that different?

 

[BigSky]

Another problem is you may have followed the advice of the masses always insisting that you've got to use low rings. Actually people should be advising to use "as low of rings as you can". As one user alluded above. Put on the rings, attach them so that you can move the scope back and forth. Mount the rifle with your eyes closed making sure you are in a "normal to you", comfortable position and open your eyes.

The first thing you will note is that you either have the correct height rings, too high of rings, or too low of rings. Having too low of rings is indicated by having to tilt your head down and forward to be able to see through the tube. The second thing you will note, assuming the rings are of the right height, is whether your scope is too far forward or too far back. There are ideal scope views and preferred scope views. Move it back or forward such that you have the widest clear view (least amount of outer "shadow/black").