NATIONAL FORESTS IN SO CAL CLOSED

[MattB]

Is there no fire danger the week after that?

You are missing the point. We cannot make up for 50 years of forest mismanagement right now, and it would be assinine to suggest as you have that we shouldn't take measures to mitigate against the potential of further diluting our already strained resources by allowing for the status quo in the face of weather that will increase fire risk (continued low humidity, high temperatures, and increasing wind).

We have seen other states close NF's in the fall due to fire risk (AZ in particular), so let's not pretend that this is a CA-only phenomenon.

Edit: I only saw your second post before responding, noticed that you posted prior to that and it is much more in line with my thinking. I agree with you that we need a wholesale change in policy with forced prescribed burns and forest management policies that mitigate fire danger.

 

[spike camp]

Is there no fire danger the week after that?

What kind of ‘plan’ can a state have for drought status, year after year?

How about millions of inaccessible beetle kill acres and daily lighting storms?
What’s the plan?

What’s the plan, for the hundreds of thousands of out of state visitors to NF’s across the west this summer, being F’ing idiots, and starting fires?

Oh, wait...close the National Forest.
Now that’s, a plan.

 

[Opah]

Hummm No ignition sources, no camp grounds,. Me, myself and I in my loin clothe and with my bow should not violate the closure restrictions. May be a sight on one should want to see but I'll be hunting !

1. Closure of the following National Forests: Stanislaus National Forest, Sierra National Forest, Sequoia National Forest, Inyo National Forest, Los Padres National Forest, Angeles National Forest, San Bernardino National Forest, and Cleveland National Forest.
2. Prohibition of the use of any ignition source on all National Forest System lands (campfires, gas stoves, etc.) throughout California.
3. Closure of all developed campgrounds and day-use sites on National Forests in California.

Yes I was correct no mention of a 62 year old fat guy running around in his loin clothe with bow in hand.

 

[Muley Buck]

What kind of ‘plan’ can a state have for drought status, year after year?

How about millions of inaccessible beetle kill acres and daily lighting storms?
What’s the plan?

What’s the plan, for the hundreds of thousands of out of state visitors to NF’s across the west this summer, being F’ing idiots, and starting fires?

Oh, wait...close the National Forest.
Now that’s, a plan.

You quote all the things out of our control or can't do. How bout things we CAN do? Like, try healthy thinning of the forest lands.
More controlled burns to mitigate out of control wildfires for a start.

Take a look at the redwood parks of California they are always having controlled burns, kinda weird how all those old sequoias don't burn up every summer when California is on fire. It works!

 

[Muley Buck]

Hummm No ignition sources, no camp grounds,. Me, myself and I in my loin clothe and with my bow should not violate the closure restrictions. May be a sight on one should want to see but I'll be hunting !

1. Closure of the following National Forests: Stanislaus National Forest, Sierra National Forest, Sequoia National Forest, Inyo National Forest, Los Padres National Forest, Angeles National Forest, San Bernardino National Forest, and Cleveland National Forest.
2. Prohibition of the use of any ignition source on all National Forest System lands (campfires, gas stoves, etc.) throughout California.
3. Closure of all developed campgrounds and day-use sites on National Forests in California.

Yes I was correct no mention of a 62 year old fat guy running around in his loin clothe with bow in hand.

The way it reads you would be in violation for just being there.
#1 says closure of specific forests.
#2 & #3 pertain to all National Forest lands in California

 

[Opah]

It would be just another Sasquatch report no Forest service or CDFW ranger would pay attention

 

[ramsdude47]

How in the world are there not exceptions for loin cloths and bows? Just a fantastic post.

On a more serious note though, how long is it going to take for humans to realize our presence (particularly in exorbitant density) in places that don’t have rain/humidity is wildly inappropriate. The insurance companies have definitely realized this. I will be the first to admit I probably should not have been allowed to move to Western CO 6 years ago.

 

[spike camp]

You quote all the things out of our control or can't do. How bout things we CAN do? Like, try healthy thinning of the forest lands.
More controlled burns to mitigate out of control wildfires for a start.

Take a look at the redwood parks of California they are always having controlled burns, kinda weird how all those old sequoias don't burn up every summer when California is on fire. It works!

I don’t necessarily disagree with you here, but it’s not as easy as just saying..fix it.
Population explosion, homes being being built on every available space, and twenty other factors make it a much more complex issue than just thinning forest or controlled burns.

 

[cacklercrazy]

Oh man. WTF. Why do I get the feeling that “temporary“ will turn into the rest of the year. I sure hope not.

It closed everywhere now. D6 opener is in two weeks. Don't look good.

 

[Muley Buck]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you here, but it’s not as easy as just saying..fix it.
Population explosion, homes being being built on every available space, and twenty other factors make it a much more complex issue than just thinning forest or controlled burns.

Agreed. But just shutting down public land isn't an answer either. These lands are paid for and funded by us the people, and we need to start moving toward a long term plan so we can utilize these lands all year long. It wouldn't be reasonable for you to buy a house and only live in it part of the year every year because seasonally it has a rodent infestation. Nobody would accept that. The obvious thing to do would be to start moving in a direction that would mitigate the problem.

 

[spike camp]

Agreed. But just shutting down public land isn't an answer either. These lands are paid for and funded by us the people, and we need to start moving toward a long term plan so we can utilize these lands all year long. It wouldn't be reasonable for you to buy a house and only live in it part of the year every year because seasonally it has a rodent infestation. Nobody would accept that. The obvious thing to do would be to start moving in a direction that would mitigate the problem.

This discussion got me curious, and I found this interesting:

Congress is responsible for appropriating funds to the federal agencies, including the Forest Service. Every year, Congress writes appropriations bills that specify how much money each agency receives and how they can spend it. The Forest Service’s appropriations are part of the Appropriations Bill for Interior, Environment and related agencies.

Who’s to say that there isn’t a thinning and controlled burn plan not already in place, in a lot of these areas?

I think this really boils down to this year in particular, with 40-45% increased visitors, insane heat and drought, and fire danger through the roof in much of the west.

I’m not sure about the rodent analogy, but NF closures are a federal order.
Still seems like the best and only solution, given the circumstances.
Additionally, Clearing tens of millions of acres of forest of fuels, just doesn’t seem feasible.

 

[Muley Buck]

This discussion got me curious, and I found this interesting:

Congress is responsible for appropriating funds to the federal agencies, including the Forest Service. Every year, Congress writes appropriations bills that specify how much money each agency receives and how they can spend it. The Forest Service’s appropriations are part of the Appropriations Bill for Interior, Environment and related agencies.

Interesting

Who’s to say that there isn’t a thinning and controlled burn plan not already in place, in a lot of these areas?

According to NF law enforcement officials I've spoke with there sometimes is, but many places it should be but isn't at all.

I think this really boils down to this year in particular, with 40-45% increased visitors, insane heat and drought, and fire danger through the roof in much of the west.

It's like this every summer. Many, many wildfires every year.

I’m not sure about the rodent analogy, but NF closures are a federal order.

Yes they are, but the state initiates and "asks" the federal government for compliance. The same thing happened this last spring when all this covid shit happened.

Still seems like the best and only solution, given the circumstances.

Is a solution to a problem that doesn't fix the problem a solution?

Additionally, Clearing tens of millions of acres of forest of fuels, just doesn’t seem feasible.

I'm not suggesting that, its just a tool in the toolbox. We have plenty of other western states that are good examples of fire prevention implementation. We can and should learn from that.

 

[NeedleCrook]

Assuming NF remain closed, does this include wilderness areas, BLM?

I’m trying to figure out what my options are to still hunt if forests don’t open. Archery season may be over before it began. Hopefully some of this is fixed before rifle.

 

[MattB]

This discussion got me curious, and I found this interesting:

Congress is responsible for appropriating funds to the federal agencies, including the Forest Service. Every year, Congress writes appropriations bills that specify how much money each agency receives and how they can spend it. The Forest Service’s appropriations are part of the Appropriations Bill for Interior, Environment and related agencies.

Who’s to say that there isn’t a thinning and controlled burn plan not already in place, in a lot of these areas?

I think this really boils down to this year in particular, with 40-45% increased visitors, insane heat and drought, and fire danger through the roof in much of the west.

I’m not sure about the rodent analogy, but NF closures are a federal order.
Still seems like the best and only solution, given the circumstances.
Additionally, Clearing tens of millions of acres of forest of fuels, just doesn’t seem feasible.

It takes more than just appropriating funds. I believe in CA the air quality boards must approve burns and there is a lot of pressure that gets applied by the public.

 

[Oregon]

Our state forests and private timber lands are locked up tighter than a seals vagina.
I’m not to upset about it.
when you have skies that look like this(pure smoke)

And winds like this from the East (dry air)

Im OK with it.

 

[Muley Buck]

Our state forests and private timber lands are locked up tighter than a seals vagina.
I’m not to upset about it.
when you have skies that look like this(pure smoke)
View attachment 213952
And winds like this from the East (dry air)
View attachment 213953
Im OK with it.

Sure, but are the forests not on fire closed too??

 

[amassi]

Additionally, Clearing tens of millions of acres of forest of fuels, just doesn’t seem feasible.

Sure its feasible, they did it for about 100 years with less technology and equipment than we have at our disposal today
You only need look at photos from 1980 to see that common sense forest thinning and burn practices once existed in california.
40 years of mismanagement and lobbying lead us to where we are. To think it irreversible is asinine. You need only lift the restrictions and open a market

Heres a really boring paper on the loss of big trees supplanted and choked with thick young growth

Twentieth-century shifts in forest structure in California: Denser forests, smaller trees, and increased dominance of oaks - PMC

Declines in the number of large trees in temperate and tropical forests have attracted attention, given their disproportionate importance to forest structure, function, and carbon storage. Yet, factors responsible for these declines are unclear. By ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And another that points to forest density issues on private timber leases

Land ownership and 20th century changes to forest structure in California

Forests in California have changed dramatically during the 20th century. Shifts in forest structure including densification, declines in large trees a…

www.sciencedirect.com

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Bubblehide]

On a trail I use in one of my hunt areas in southern Ca, the dead brush is well over my head. The living brush twists and turns through it to get above it. But even parts of that living brush is dead. I have been hunting this area for well over 30 years. I can tell you from my experience this area has never experienced any type of fire suppression efforts to remove dead brush, trees.... the dead fule is stacked up so thick and high that it is seriously scary to think what it will be like when it does eventually burn.

 

[Muley Buck]

Sure its feasible, they did it for about 100 years with less technology and equipment than we have at our disposal today
You only need look at photos from 1980 to see that common sense forest thinning and burn practices once existed in california.
40 years of mismanagement and lobbying lead us to where we are. To think it irreversible is asinine. You need only lift the restrictions and open a market

Heres a really boring paper on the loss of big trees supplanted and choked with thick young growth

Twentieth-century shifts in forest structure in California: Denser forests, smaller trees, and increased dominance of oaks - PMC

Declines in the number of large trees in temperate and tropical forests have attracted attention, given their disproportionate importance to forest structure, function, and carbon storage. Yet, factors responsible for these declines are unclear. By ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And another that points to forest density issues on private timber leases

Land ownership and 20th century changes to forest structure in California

Forests in California have changed dramatically during the 20th century. Shifts in forest structure including densification, declines in large trees a…

www.sciencedirect.com

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

I totally forgot about this. I remember reading these reports concerning our forests in the recent past. Thank you for posting it.

 

[cacklercrazy]

Agreed. But just shutting down public land isn't an answer either. These lands are paid for and funded by us the people, and we need to start moving toward a long term plan so we can utilize these lands all year long. It wouldn't be reasonable for you to buy a house and only live in it part of the year every year because seasonally it has a rodent infestation. Nobody would accept that. The obvious thing to do would be to start moving in a direction that would mitigate the problem.

Get rid of the liberal Democratic trash in the state.