My thoughts on Long-range shooting/hunting

[WeiserBucks]

If the bullet gets diverted from it's intended path right away, it'll impact further from point of aim than it would if it gets diverted further along. I'm not trying to argue either, I think we're simply not understanding each others opinion as intended.

 

[wind gypsy]

 

[GreyBeck]

I was taught that wind at the muzzle meant next to nothing. Not enough time spent in that wind. ~75-80% the range when shooting 500+yards when the max altitude of the arc is reached and the bullet starts to drop is where wind shifts the most. Wind can be a lot different along the path of the projectile and it’s the part of the path where the projectile spends the most time that alters its course the most. I’m still trying to figure out how to best read a mirage to determine the wind speed and direction. Just when I think I have it, i don’t. The best reason I’ve found to switch from MOA tol MIL is because of the wind holds. Still have to have the speed and direction right. And i don’t hold for wind sub 300yards. But I only hunt, not compete. Has worked so far. But could certainly learn more.

 

[eric1115]

I’ve been long-range hunting (over 40 years) and have been a 1000-yard completive shooter for a number of years and winning a IBS/NBRSA national championship for 1000 yard score and two state championships for smallest group.



First off to be successful you must have excellent equipment to do the job, that’s fairly easy to do if you have the money to buy what is required. In my opinion the weakest link in the chain is the scope, buy the best you can afford, the rifle can sometimes be purchased of the shelf, manufactured by several commercial rifle makers. That being said in my opinion if you’re going to spend your hard-earned dollars, go to a qualified gun builder and have a custom barrel chambered in your favorite caliber. That will take care of part of the equation.

Now for the hard part is acquiring the skill set. I really don’t know how to tell you how to go about it, other than I practice when the conditions are bad at the longest range I can 300 to 500 yards or so would be good. Shorter ranges can work but not be as dramatic of changes as the longer ranges. I should mention quality ammunition is of major importance. (Good scope + good rifle + bad ammo = bad groups.) When shooting in windy conditions I pay close attention to the wind in front of the rifle, when the bullet exits the barrel gravity and wind acts on it immediately and stars to pull it down and in the direction of the wind and I think it effects it the most at that moment a few thousands of deflections at the muzzle can be huge at distance. I also look at the conditions along the bullets path that can counteract or add to what’s happening at the muzzle and I’ll adjust accordingly. I don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening at the target except for light conditions, because the bullet is already there.

In all honesty while having many one shot kills at distance, I’ve also had my share of near misses on the first shot, but if having an opportunity for a second shot I more often than not make a clean kill. In the many years of hunting long-range, I never crippled one and have it get away. On rare occasions I did have to shoot an animal again not wanting to let it bleed-out and suffer.

I’ll probably have a lot of blow-back on this and maybe called BS but this is what works for me.

Do you know if a hot dog is a sandwich? Still trying to get this figured out.

 

[Megalodon]

JFC... this has been looked at by some of the best ballisticians in the biz... wind at the shooter (or the firs 1/3rd) is the most important. Some of y'all were flat out taught wrong. This doesn't account for the nuance of course, ex. 5 mph L-R at shooter, 25 mph R-L at target.

If you still disagree, argue with Litz.

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Where-does-wind-matter.pdf

Has links to a AB Facebook post too: https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2022/04/bryan-litz-explains-cwf-crosswind-weighting-factor/

 

[WeiserBucks]

JFC... this has been looked at by some of the best ballisticians in the biz... wind at the shooter (or the firs 1/3rd) is the most important. Some of y'all were flat out taught wrong. This doesn't account for the nuance of course, ex. 5 mph L-R at shooter, 25 mph R-L at target.

If you still disagree, argue with Litz.

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Where-does-wind-matter.pdf

Has links to a AB Facebook post too: https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2022/04/bryan-litz-explains-cwf-crosswind-weighting-factor/

This is what I was trying to convey.

 

[JF_Idaho]

JFC... this has been looked at by some of the best ballisticians in the biz... wind at the shooter (or the firs 1/3rd) is the most important. Some of y'all were flat out taught wrong. This doesn't account for the nuance of course, ex. 5 mph L-R at shooter, 25 mph R-L at target.

If you still disagree, argue with Litz.

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Where-does-wind-matter.pdf

Has links to a AB Facebook post too: https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2022/04/bryan-litz-explains-cwf-crosswind-weighting-factor/

Only when it's broken down into thirds. When you add the 2/3 and 3/3 together they have greater effect than the 1st third.

If you still disagree, argue with Litz.

 

[Castle Rock]

Good first post, shame it turned into the usual shitshow wit people trying to argue against proven info

 

[ORJoe]

That's something I've been wondering a while and never got around to asking.

So the bullet lands at B and not A?

 

[WeiserBucks]

Ed Zachary

 

[GreyBeck]

Not debating the greater effect of an angle at distance but at long range shooting schools, which method is taught more for wind holds? Reading wind at the shooter or further down range?

 

[WJM1000]

That's something I've been wondering a while and never got around to asking.
View attachment 725865
So the bullet lands at B and not A?

That's what I believe will happen. once the bullet starts to deviate from the original path and baring any other factors as in your illustration.

 

[WJM1000]

If you read my original post you will see this statement.

"I also look at the conditions along the bullets path that can counteract or add to what’s happening at the muzzle and I’ll adjust accordingly. I don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening at the target except for light conditions, because the bullet is already there."

 

[JF_Idaho]

If you read my original post you will see this statement.

"I also look at the conditions along the bullets path that can counteract or add to what’s happening at the muzzle and I’ll adjust accordingly. I don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening at the target except for light conditions, because the bullet is already there."

You did. And that's understandable.

I think where it got convoluted when it went from at the muzzle, to 100 yards (that I gave) and then suddenly shifted to 333 yards (1/3 to target). As pertaining to overall wind drift to target at 1k yards.

I would question the illustration above. I don't believe it's that linear as there is a frictional component to the bullet flight that over a certain distance/time would correct trajectory once the wind stopped.

I guess the reason it piqued my interest was that I don't often find my shooting position whether on the range, blm, or in the mountains to be in the most prevalent wind along the course to target.

 

[WJM1000]

For those that are curious here is a sample of the easiest place to get to hunt. This is not very typical of the places we have to pack into. My daughter is just posing for a photo opp.

 

[Castle Rock]

The simplest way to understand the concept of wind at the muzzle having more effect is to realise that the wind is pushing the bullet so it is pointing in the direction that the wind is moving

 

[JF_Idaho]

The simplest way to understand the concept of wind at the muzzle having more effect is to realise that the wind is pushing the bullet so it is pointing in the direction that the wind is moving

Well that's where it gets interesting.

The bullet tip is pointing into the wind. The wind coming L to R is creating drag on the left side of the bullet.

 

[TaperPin]

That's something I've been wondering a while and never got around to asking.
View attachment 725865
So the bullet lands at B and not A?

It would be fun to see Doppler radar bullet track for that situation. Looking at side to side conservation of momentum, the side momentum gained in the bullet to 500 yards will continue to push the bullet to the right. It won’t be exact, because the side to side air resistance will contribute to reducing the distance it travels to the right, and the added time of flight from 500 to 1000 will give the bullet more time to move contributing to more deviation. My guess is the impact is just slightly more than halfway between A and B.

 

[Macintosh]

Thats interesting. I always assumed bullet flight was like a imaginary dowel seen from above—that rather than “turning” the dowel downwind like the hand on a clock (b), the wind would “roll” the dowel downwind so the flight path would remain parallel to line of sight (a). Have no idea how id test this, but interested in the actual answer.

 

[JF_Idaho]

From my limited understanding, the wind is not "pushing" the bullet. The wind is creating pressure/drag on the windy side of the bullet. The drag is realized more on the back of the bullet than the pointy (aerodynamic) front, thus tipping the tip of the bullet towards the wind. Making the right side on a L to R wind travel with less resistance and ultimately drifting that direction.

A good way to visualize is thinking of a boat the shape of a bullet with waves pushing L to R. The waves push harder in the flat back of the boat tipping it bow left while pushing the overall course of the boat to the right.