My Rifle / Shooting Journey

[jonnyviceroy]

Ryan said it above.

Baby it.

Operate it slowly and carefully.

Avoid precipitation, dust and grit.

Gotcha, I understand what Ryan’s saying I was just trying to more specifically understand what made @Formidilosus 700 platform more reliable and if there was more to do with specific preventative maintenance or certain 700 clones were more reliable than others mechanically? I know I personally have shot very windy and dusty two day matches and noticed a difference in feel but haven’t yet had anything massively detrimental on that front occur.

 

[SDHNTR]

Why don’t you go to S2H class and see how it stacks up? Honest question, no trolling.

Time and lack of desire. I’m not missing my kids sporting events and everything they have going on, or an opportunity to actually go hunting instead, for that. It really just doesn’t interest me. I hunt to shoot, not the other way around.

 

[atmat]

Time and lack of desire. I’m not missing my kids sporting events and everything they have going on, or an opportunity to actually go hunting instead, for that. It really just doesn’t interest me. I hunt to shoot, not the other way around.

I get the kids thing, truly.

I guess I don’t understand why you comment so much on shooting topics and conversations when you say you’re not interested in it. If you don’t shoot a lot in field conditions, I’m not shocked if you don’t find R700 issues to be of concern — I wouldn’t either. No one said R700’s don’t work for hunting. I’ve hunted with them for a long time. I just made the switch to better platforms to set myself up for less potential issues.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I've had a very similar journey. Shooting is so much more fun with lower recoiling rifles that don't malfunction. And suppressors, my only regret is waiting so long to get into cans!

 

[hibernation]

Apart from the PRS crowd i don't think a ton of people actually feed their rifle through the magazine. I for sure didn't. Everything was at the bench single fed

Some ranges even require you to single feed. I've sure watched a lot of people shoot that way regardless, they never actually run the bolt fully, just fire and open it. Fiddle around for a bit, drop a shell in, close the bolt, repeat.

 

[Nine Banger]

Gotcha, I understand what Ryan’s saying I was just trying to more specifically understand what made @Formidilosus 700 platform more reliable and if there was more to do with specific preventative maintenance or certain 700 clones were more reliable than others mechanically?

Gotcha, I think he mostly uses that thing as a doorstop to hold his covered trailer door open.

 

[Schmo]

Gotcha, I think he mostly uses that thing as a doorstop to hold his covered trailer door open.

And you know, it probably never malfunctions while being used as such

 

[jonnyviceroy]

Gotcha, I think he mostly uses that thing as a doorstop to hold his covered trailer door open.

Makes me feel much better about my safe full of 700 clones

 

[SDHNTR]

I get the kids thing, truly.

I guess I don’t understand why you comment so much on shooting topics and conversations when you say you’re not interested in it. If you don’t shoot a lot in field conditions, I’m not shocked if you don’t find R700 issues to be of concern — I wouldn’t either. No one said R700’s don’t work for hunting. I’ve hunted with them for a long time. I just made the switch to better platforms to set myself up for less potential issues.

No, I hunt year round. I have a lease on the largest ranch in the state and hunt hogs, varmints and ground squirrels regularly. I also do several out of state hunts all over the west every year. I do shoot a lot in field conditions, but it’s while actually hunting. I have plenty of other platforms too. In fact, I much prefer the M70 CRF design to any R700 or clone. And except for a few outliers (most of which were manufacturing flaws) I just don’t have many problems with any of them. Of course I buy good stuff and set things up to minimize the potential for problems in the first place, but my guns are constantly bumping around in vehicles, in dust, moisture, the elements, slips and falls, etc. My guns don’t malfunction in my use case.

The bottom line is, I just like to hunt more than I like to shoot. Shooting is only a means to the end. I don’t find shooting to be the most enjoyable, or really even the challenging, part of hunting. I’m not going to go set up for a day of target shooting (although I often do) if I instead have the opportunity to head out for a day of hunting, as is usually the case. And I’m definitely not doing that for a whole week! I’m actually a bowhunter first. If I question the shooting aspect of making a kill (which is very rare) I just try to get closer or let the critter walk. I just don’t find the shooting part really gratifying.

And lately I’d much rather watch my daughter hit home runs or my son grind his opponent into the mat.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Would a Sauer 100 work out better or do all roads really lead to Tikka?

Better jump on EuroOptics sale, just saw in another thread that the 100 has been discontinued

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Would a Sauer 100 work out better or do all roads really lead to Tikka?

Both the Sauer 100s I own are great (6.5 CM and 9.3x62). I like the 3-position safety, trigger is good, magazines are great, the bolt is smooth. I haven’t really explored the full accuracy ability or found the right load in my two yet, but they show great potential. They don’t come threaded, but that’s an easy job and, unless you hire a muppet and botch the job, it won’t affect the warranty.

Tikka has the advantage of better twist rates available for .223, .22-250, .243, etc. They are also now available in shorter barrel lengths and with factory threads.

 

[WoolyBugger]

I shot several deer the last 2 weeks with my 700 clone in the Midwest, it was -14 when we woke up Saturday and went out. Snow got on my action too. I certainly don’t baby the gun but don’t abuse it.

I’m not saying there’s no problems with the r700, more so that I wish I had the means to attend a class and see them for myself because I’m not experiencing them. I also have a tikka and rokstok on order to see what I’m missing out on.

 

[Formidilosus]

Can you share the details on your most reliable 700 pattern?

Factory R700’s with M24 triggers or Geissele Super 700’s have been overall the “best” performing R700 pattern guns. I’ll take a properly made factory 700 with one of the above triggers over almost any “custom” 700 action. I have, or have used heavily nearly all the custom actions- BAT, Defiance, Zermett, ARC, etc, etc.

I understand the law of averages and sounds like I’m destined to run into an issue eventually. But I’d like to know what things can be done to minimize and prevent some of these failures if you do have 700 clones? I specifically have mostly Zermatt and trigger techs.

Trigger techs are some of the most susceptible triggers to debris and ice. Geissele super 700, or XSTP Mod 22 trigger. As above, I will take an M24 Remington trigger as well.

And yes I know the correct answer is sell and get tikkas haha but besides that.

Eh maybe. I’m sentimental fella, I have R700 guns that I like. I just recognize and admit their issues try to deal with them if I choose to use them.

 

[Formidilosus]

I shot several deer the last 2 weeks with my 700 clone in the Midwest, it was -14 when we woke up Saturday and went out. Snow got on my action too. I certainly don’t baby the gun but don’t abuse it.

Well, that’s the thing. What you wrote, and when others write if you take time to read it- you see, they don’t really shoot. Shooting ground squirrels one day, or leaving your clean house and shooting a few deer, and then putting the rifle back into a clean house- is not the same as what we’re talking about.

People legitimately just don’t know, what they don’t know. One of the most common statements when people come shoot with us is something akin to- “this is what I thought I shot like, but in reality I have never done anything like this”. I average 3-5 days a week, year round off a range in the field shooting. Months of the year in truly cold and snow shooting tens of thousands of rounds- never once do I not go shoot because it’s too cold, hot, raining, snowing, smoke from fires, etc. Hundreds of rifles, by dozens of shooters. My observations don’t come from a couple rifles- it’s from a large data set used very heavily.

People think they practice and train hard, and really use their gear. In reality they don’t.

 

[SDHNTR]

Well, that’s the thing. What you wrote, and when others write if you take time to read it- you see, they don’t really shoot. Shooting ground squirrels one day, or leaving your clean house and shooting a few deer, and then putting the rifle back into a clean house- is not the same as what we’re talking about.

People legitimately just don’t know, what they don’t know. One of the most common statements when people come shoot with us is something akin to- “this is what I thought I shot like, but in reality I have never done anything like this”. I average 3-5 days a week, year round off a range in the field shooting. Months of the year in truly cold and snow shooting tens of thousands of rounds- never once do I not go shoot because it’s too cold, hot, raining, snowing, smoke from fires, etc. Hundreds of rifles, by dozens of shooters. My observations don’t come from a couple rifles- it’s from a large data set used very heavily.

People think they practice and train hard, and really use their gear. In reality they don’t.

So what’s the difference between “shooting ground squirrels one day” and then hogs the next and then deer and then antelope and then elk and then bears and then sheep, etc. in all of the conditions you describe, plus range and practice days, for 80-100+ days a year, over several decades? All without a problem.

Versus one week week where you shoot a few thousand times? Why does condensing it all into a few days of your class cause problems? And what exactly are you calling malfunctions?

 

[gbflyer]

I was surprised to read about the Axis making it with the exception of a mag issue, which I can relate to.

 

[WoolyBugger]

Well, that’s the thing. What you wrote, and when others write if you take time to read it- you see, they don’t really shoot. Shooting ground squirrels one day, or leaving your clean house and shooting a few deer, and then putting the rifle back into a clean house- is not the same as what we’re talking about.

People legitimately just don’t know, what they don’t know. One of the most common statements when people come shoot with us is something akin to- “this is what I thought I shot like, but in reality I have never done anything like this”. I average 3-5 days a week, year round off a range in the field shooting. Months of the year in truly cold and snow shooting tens of thousands of rounds- never once do I not go shoot because it’s too cold, hot, raining, snowing, smoke from fires, etc. Hundreds of rifles, by dozens of shooters. My observations don’t come from a couple rifles- it’s from a large data set used very heavily.

People think they practice and train hard, and really use their gear. In reality they don’t.

Well, yeah. But can’t 2 things be true at the same time? And fwiw I trust the large data sets because I don’t have that same amount of time to dedicate to it but I’m just trying to verify the problems I’m supposed to have. And maybe I don’t understand how harsh the conditions are at a s2h class.

 

[T_Widdy]

Versus one week week where you shoot a few thousand times? Why does condensing it all into a few days of your class cause problems? And what exactly are you calling malfunctions?

Most ppl run a gun like it’s fragile, most ppl don’t even use their magazine during practice or testing. When you are being taught to be an on demand kill anything shooter and shoot till it’s dead lots of problems come out of the cracks. A malfunction is anything keeping the gun from going bang AND hitting the desired target on demand within seconds. Missfeeds, jams, stuck cases, triggers loss of zero ect…. Are all problems that keep one from doing the job you are there to do.

 

[SDHNTR]

Most ppl run a gun like it’s fragile, most ppl don’t even use their magazine during practice or testing. When you are being taught to be an on demand kill anything shooter and shoot till it’s dead lots of problems come out of the cracks. A malfunction is anything keeping the gun from going bang AND hitting the desired target on demand within seconds. Missfeeds, jams, stuck cases, triggers loss of zero ect…. Are all problems that keep one from doing the job you are there to do.

Right, but I haven’t seen any of that that wasn’t either user error or a manufacturing/qc flaw.

 

[Schmo]

Right, but I haven’t seen any of that that wasn’t either user error or a manufacturing/qc flaw.

Doesn’t all of that count? If one system is more prone to user error or manufacturing/qc problems, doesn’t all of that still count in the grand scheme?