My European Red Stag Hunt!

[alaska_bou]

In Romania, you can hunt "any size" stags for a pretty attractive flat rate with no sliding trophy fee scale, often under $6k or $7k, and trophies average in the 8 kilo range. Or you can pay by size if you want a bigger trophy. The reality is, the guides there usually know where the largest stags live (those that are 10-12kg +), and they usually only take the pay-by-size clients after those specific animals.

It is true that the very big stags people often think of when red stag come to mind are almost always from a high fences, but there are outfitters that are taking deer farm genetics and introducing those genetics into their wild deer herds, particularly in countries like Argentina. By doing that, they can regularly take 340" to 400" trophies in a wild, free range environment that would otherwise be impossible. Some outfitters do this by capturing wild female hinds and impregnating them with the enhanced genetics, which maintains the authenticity of the hunting experience.

There are plenty of honest outfitters who operate with integrity, but there are plenty who lie and deceive in such a competitive industry. For example, I know of NZ outfitters who buy deer farm stags from deer farms and release them into low fence private properties and advertise these "Free Range" with photos of clients with 400"+ trophies. Wild red deer in New Zealand (those that didn't escape a deer farm) usually score in the mid to high 200" range. Rarely, you will find a few that may surpass 300". They just don't get any real size without enhanced genetics.

BTW, James at New Zealand Free Range Hunting is the Real Deal and the best, IMO, you will find on the South Island. I have hunted with him.

The Croatia hunt looks like a great experience, congrats on the hunt!

 

[lilharcher]

Very well said Alaska_bou and that is my understanding about NZ……lots of free range monsters (yes, without high fences, but on 1000s of acres of private, with no where for those animals to go), but very few/if any are “natural” stock. And to avoid confusion, I also agree there are lots of natural, free range stags in NZ, but their horns are very similar to our elk (up to ~7 points on each side), with exception to a mature Stag’s horns crowning out (which is super cool). If it has 20+ points on each side, it may be free range, but I can assure you it isn’t “natural” (unmodified in some fashion).

That brings me back to Croatia, which is a country I love and have visited……and strive to visit again soon. Given some of those “Gold” level stags look huge……have they been modified in the past, or are they a product of natural genetics?

Not bashing either way because I’m a believer in “to each their own”. Curious for a future trip there.

 

[moonface]

Great hunt. Europe is a good destination if you do your research , ask plenty of questions and understand their scoring / trophy fee system. Sometimes shooting larger antlered animals just before their prime or full maturity gets you a big trophy that doesn’t have the weight or the price of an older heavier antlered stag. But this can conflict against management practices and some areas only allow a small number of younger males to be harvested.
There are fenced areas over there in many regions but plenty of wild areas from wild herds selectively managed over a long period of time.

 

[Silas_Norris]

My wife wants to go to Italy in 2 years. If you discover anything good please let me know.

Also curious how much this cost the OP. Maybe a detour for a few days after Italy.

Croatia will likely cost LESS than italy but as you likely know they are very close to eachother. You will spend 10k or more on a nice red stag depending on the size you shoot.

 

[Silas_Norris]

Great hunt. Europe is a good destination if you do your research , ask plenty of questions and understand their scoring / trophy fee system. Sometimes shooting larger antlered animals just before their prime or full maturity gets you a big trophy that doesn’t have the weight or the price of an older heavier antlered stag. But this can conflict against management practices and some areas only allow a small number of younger males to be harvested.
There are fenced areas over there in many regions but plenty of wild areas from wild herds selectively managed over a long period of time.

Yes, more people should look into hunting in europe for sure! Its beautiful and there are lots of well managed game areas!

 

[Silas_Norris]

Very well said Alaska_bou and that is my understanding about NZ……lots of free range monsters (yes, without high fences, but on 1000s of acres of private, with no where for those animals to go), but very few/if any are “natural” stock. And to avoid confusion, I also agree there are lots of natural, free range stags in NZ, but their horns are very similar to our elk (up to ~7 points on each side), with exception to a mature Stag’s horns crowning out (which is super cool). If it has 20+ points on each side, it may be free range, but I can assure you it isn’t “natural” (unmodified in some fashion).

That brings me back to Croatia, which is a country I love and have visited……and strive to visit again soon. Given some of those “Gold” level stags look huge……have they been modified in the past, or are they a product of natural genetics?

Not bashing either way because I’m a believer in “to each their own”. Curious for a future trip there.

These are natural well managed stags. In certain areas they did have mineral and salt licks out for the different deer and stags but that is for the health of the herd and does not modify their genetics. They actually are fairly displeased with the modifications happening in New Zealand and Argentina etc. They manage the areas really well and the stags (particularly in Eastern Croatia) grow larger than any other places in Europe. They are pure stags and not modified. Just very well managed.

 

[Silas_Norris]

This is not normal... At least here in Spain you can receive your trophy between 3-8 months no more

I did not get my stag back yet from september however I was told 6 months. So, it doesnt sound normal based on the time frame I was given but I do not have mine back yet to prove it.
I will note: I booked through the WTA and they are a legitimate agency for hunters all over the world. I feel better about getting my trophy back when using a agency like this. They would NOT want the publicity of a american hunter paying 14k for a red stag and not ever getting it back. It would deter 100s of hunters from traveling overseas. i would personally not book a European hunt without using a large hunting agency to book it as they will make sure I get my trophy back. If I had booked directly with the outfitter I would admit I would be concerned until I have the stag in my hands. Did you go through a agency or at least a well known and large outfitter?

 

[Silas_Norris]

What was the cost of the hunt as well as the trophy fee?

6k base price for stag up to 180 cic. I shot a stag at 205 cic. It was like 6k upcharge. 14k total

 

[Silas_Norris]

What was the cost of the hunt?

6k for stag up to 180 cic. My stag as 205. It cost 6k MORE. I paid 14k total.

 

[mms2]

cool thanks

 

[fwafwow]

Thanks for this thread. Did you ship your own rifle, and does Croatia permit suppressors?

 

[Silas_Norris]

Thanks for this thread. Did you ship your own rifle, and does Croatia permit suppressors?

It is a option to bring your own rifle however I decided not to deal with that extra hassle. Suppressors were not legal in croatia when I was there. Or at least that was my understanding of what my guide told me. The guides rifle was great and dead on! Most shots are under 200 yards from what they told me to be prepared for

 

[Silas_Norris]

It is a option to bring your own rifle however I decided not to deal with that extra hassle. Suppressors were not legal in croatia when I was there. Or at least that was my understanding of what my guide told me. The guides rifle was great and dead on! Most shots are under 200 yards from what they told me to be prepared for

In a few scenarios if the stag would have presented a shot and came out form the thick cover, the shot would have been under 50 yards.

 

[bradyhunt]

In Romania, you can hunt "any size" stags for a pretty attractive flat rate with no sliding trophy fee scale, often under $6k or $7k, and trophies average in the 8 kilo range. Or you can pay by size if you want a bigger trophy. The reality is, the guides there usually know where the largest stags live (those that are 10-12kg +), and they usually only take the pay-by-size clients after those specific animals.

It is true that the very big stags people often think of when red stag come to mind are almost always from a high fences, but there are outfitters that are taking deer farm genetics and introducing those genetics into their wild deer herds, particularly in countries like Argentina. By doing that, they can regularly take 340" to 400" trophies in a wild, free range environment that would otherwise be impossible. Some outfitters do this by capturing wild female hinds and impregnating them with the enhanced genetics, which maintains the authenticity of the hunting experience.

There are plenty of honest outfitters who operate with integrity, but there are plenty who lie and deceive in such a competitive industry. For example, I know of NZ outfitters who buy deer farm stags from deer farms and release them into low fence private properties and advertise these "Free Range" with photos of clients with 400"+ trophies. Wild red deer in New Zealand (those that didn't escape a deer farm) usually score in the mid to high 200" range. Rarely, you will find a few that may surpass 300". They just don't get any real size without enhanced genetics.

BTW, James at New Zealand Free Range Hunting is the Real Deal and the best, IMO, you will find on the South Island. I have hunted with him.

The Croatia hunt looks like a great experience, congrats on the hunt!

Pretty good summation of red deer trophy hunting around the world. Lots of manipulation and ambiguous terms like "free range" and "fair chase". They usually just mean a bigger pen.

Funny how OPs outfitter doesn't have any stags in the standard size range and has no choice but to upgrade...

And I agree, James Cagney is the man!!

 

[inyago]

New Zealand does not allow GMO animals or plants as yet, what you are looking at is selective breeding for the velvet trade which is where the real money is. This in turn has lead to the development of freak monsters that bear no resemblance to a wild stag. Now some of these stags on some farms are closer to free range animals in looks and are sold of to outfitters for growing as trophy animals. Elk have been used as terminal sires to increase overall length and mass, remembering that the idea is to increase velvet production, bigger antlers more velvet more money for the farmer. These animals should not be classed as trophy animals. But what happened was people turned up wanting to shoot animals with as many points on them as the antlers could hold and so we have ended up with this b/s industry of these animals being called trophies that they are certainly not.
Some people cut fences and drove stock/ stags into the bush and many were not able to be shot/ recovered and so now in different parts of nz both north and south islands genuine free range animals with very enhanced genetics are producing outstanding animals totally free range, whatever that means, that look more like the ops but holding up to 18 to 22 points, but you cannot turn up and expect to get an animal like that. With the helicopter deer control going on dumb animals die and the smart ones are almost impossible to get, that is why the roar is many people's best chance of getting something, anything actually. We do not have closed hunt seasons so the deer do not get a chance to relax and start to drop their guard. You will not find red deer carrying on like whitetail deer living in the yard so to speak.