Multi Day Ski/Split Touring help

[Poser]

I thought I’d ask here since there will be more of an understanding of hot tents and load shelves vs. the non hunting crowd.

Been planning on doing more Overnight splitboard trips this winter for both aesthetic reasons and to get further away from the shitshow that will be the winter backcountry scene this year. I had a overnighter planned for this weekend as a shakedown trip, but my partner bailed because he didn’t want to skin in with such a heavy pack. I was all packed up and not happy with my setup at all so here’s a chance to ask for some advice and tips.

Details:

-Hot tent is necessary.
-Would like to ideally have my airbag/Avy bag with me, but, ugh... the weight.
-original plan was to use my Exo 3500 and carry the Avy bag empty of all contents except the canister and air bag in the meat shelf, but it was way too bulky. I downgraded to a BD dawn patrol pack for this trip, but for certain terrain, I will absolutely want my airbag in the future.
-all the usual winter gear: puffy, down booties, etc.

Question:

Skinning in with camping gear + Avy gear, tools, repair kits etc. any tips for packing all of this gear + piggy backing a touring pack or airbag setup? Anyone just tour with their full size pack? (Don’t really want to do that, but open to ideas).
Best way to carry a helmet on a backpacking pack without it dangling?

Approximate pack weight for an overnight trip including Avy gear, helmet, goggles, tools, spare parts etc? (I felt like I was way heavier than anticipated).

What is the breaking point for pack weight vs. pulling a sled? I don’t want to pull a sled as the terrain around here is too steep. Also, as a snowboarder, I am a shit split skier. Working on getting better, but going downhill with a sled on split skis is out of my wheelhouse.

Any other tips or considerations?

 

[tdot]

I've gutted my mammut Avy bag for weekend trips and then repacked the cannister and actual bladder in a more efficient way. I was then able to pack everything I was taking, which I couldn't when it was properly setup as an airbag. 5min at the hut and I had a fully functioning airbag again.

If I was taking a hot tent, I would pack my hunting pack as normal and then strap my avy pack with avy gear on top or the top/back of the hubting pack. I'd keep the avy pack vertical as sideways would suck in the trees.

I personally don't ski anymore without an Avy bag. But each person can set their own risk tolerance.

Sleds suck on skin tracks, unless you're on a valley bottom. But they're especially bad on sidehill skin tracks.

So far the backcountry around here has been just ridiculously busy, and the snow hasn't even been very good. So you're on the right path!

 

[Poser]

Taking apart the airbag is a good idea. I suppose if I just removed the canister it would make the Avy pack immensely more packable. I do like the idea of keeping Avy gear in the Avy pack so I intuitively know exactly where everything is should I need it. I don’t like the idea of having to dig through my big pack to find a shovel in an emergency.

Sled: I hadn’t even considered side hilling with one of those. Ugh. Short of skinning up a 2 track road, I just don’t see it being applicable in the San Juans.

I wonder if, say, a 50# pack is going to
Make a person lean forward to far on steep skinning? Hard not to match the slope angle with weight on your back.

 

[justinspicher]

Sounds like you need a personal sherpa with a sled to follow you.....

 

[Clarktar]

I used full size pack. I think my pack was usually around 50ish. I've splitboard toured many overnighters.

Definitely awkward with that big pack at first

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[Headwatermike]

I've done a bit of back country camping and skiing and never bothered with a hot tent. I boil up some hot cocoa before bed, put it in a nalgene, and throw it in the bottom of my bag before bed time and it stays warm most of the night. I built some neoprene sleeves for them and they are still hot in the morning and don't burn your feet at night and I have a warm drink ready in the morning.

I've spent a few comfortable nights in snow shelters but they take a long time to build. I wouldn't bother with one but it is a fun activity for the kids.

I've towed a sled with good success as well but I built one from a narrow sled with skis fastened to the bottom. I tow it with ropes passed through pvc, crossed, attached to each hip belt and it is decent but not perfect--especially in deep snow where it drags on the side. It is no problem on sidehills or downhills but dragging it through a deep track sucks. I often camp with kids so I have to carry a lot of extra gear so the sled seems like the best option. Even without kids you just end up with so much gear winter camping that it is hard to stay light. The sled also kills for hauling dead critters during hunting season.

It's best to camp near a water source if possible otherwise you spend an inordinate amount of time making water.

 

[seldomseensmith]

Nothing great to add but as a lifelong backpacker and a novice splitboarder im def following this thread. I remember chatting with you last year about splitboards. With the chairs shutting down early last year it really propelled me in that direction. Excited to learn what I can here. I've only been skinning the ski hill so far but have a Backcountry trip in a few weeks with my brother up near RMNP. Anyway I hope you have a great season.

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[Clarktar]

Whatever you do, don't put your hands through the pole loops while wearing a heavy pack!!!

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[JohnB]

Personally I never bring an airbag on an overnight trip. My overnight pack is a Cilogear 45L top loader. My helmet usually sits on top of stuff inside the main packbag if I bring it. Occasionally I'll fasten it to the top of the brain of my pack using the attached shock cord. I'd say my typical overnight gear is everything I'd bring on a day trip plus more food, MSR Reactor, tent, sleeping bag/pad. So about 10 more pounds than a day pack. I'm always skiing with someone so usually the idea is to split the tent/stove between the two of us.

My overnight trips are typical during periods of warmer weather and stable snow pack so I feel comfortable leaving the airbag at home. I usually don't bother with puff pants or down booties and just deal with clomping around in my ski boots at camp. I could see how they'd be pretty nice in the dark days of midwinter. Especially in a colder area like the San Juans. I also get the appeal of an airbag in the San Juans.

Gear thoughts: Since I'm picking my weather I leave goggles at home and typically have a minimal repair kit. Leatherman skeletool, hank of bailing wire, a few extra screws for boots/bindings, skin wax and a couple ski straps. No extra toe piece or anything like that.

 

[TomJoad]

I’m with @Headwatermike on the stove unless you have several buddies to split gear with.

Great call getting a day in for some clean lines away from the crowds!

 

[Montero]

My experience is much like Headwatermike's using a sled winter camping with kids. You can pull far more weight with skins on then I'd consider carrying in a pack. We use them to access yurts during the winter and we bring pretty much everything we need including coolers filled with real food, double sleeping bags and beer. We have one commercial sled and the others we made from plastic sleds they sell at ACE. There are a lot of videos online if you want to build one cheap to try out. Good luck finding some solitude....its busy out there for sure.

 

[Poser]

I've done a bit of back country camping and skiing and never bothered with a hot tent. I boil up some hot cocoa before bed, put it in a nalgene, and throw it in the bottom of my bag before bed time and it stays warm most of the night. I built some neoprene sleeves for them and they are still hot in the morning and don't burn your feet at night and I have a warm drink ready in the morning.

I've spent a few comfortable nights in snow shelters but they take a long time to build. I wouldn't bother with one but it is a fun activity for the kids.

I've towed a sled with good success as well but I built one from a narrow sled with skis fastened to the bottom. I tow it with ropes passed through pvc, crossed, attached to each hip belt and it is decent but not perfect--especially in deep snow where it drags on the side. It is no problem on sidehills or downhills but dragging it through a deep track sucks. I often camp with kids so I have to carry a lot of extra gear so the sled seems like the best option. Even without kids you just end up with so much gear winter camping that it is hard to stay light. The sled also kills for hauling dead critters during hunting season.

It's best to camp near a water source if possible otherwise you spend an inordinate amount of time making water.

Main thought on the hot tent is getting skins, boot insoles, sweat soaked baselayers and other gear dried out. Obviously, you can sleep with your insoles and get as much sun on your skins and ski bases as possible, but dry and warm goes a long ways for both comfort and practicality. Seems look too much practical comfort to pass up.

 

[Poser]

Whatever you do, don't put your hands through the pole loops while wearing a heavy pack!!!

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Hadn’t considered that. I suppose a kick turn fall with a 50# pack on could go sideways pretty quickly

 

[Poser]

Nothing great to add but as a lifelong backpacker and a novice splitboarder im def following this thread. I remember chatting with you last year about splitboards. With the chairs shutting down early last year it really propelled me in that direction. Excited to learn what I can here. I've only been skinning the ski hill so far but have a Backcountry trip in a few weeks with my brother up near RMNP. Anyway I hope you have a great season.

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Awesome. What split set up did you end up with? I’ve done 2 chairlift served powder days at Wolf Creek this season, but otherwise, been backcountry only so far.

 

[Poser]

While we’re talking ski touring, might as well talk gear. I’ve been using this Hydrapak insulated bladder and hose system so far this year with 0 freezing issues. I’ve had few mornings as cold as 6 degrees without any freezing. The bladder sleeve is a little bulky. Also, you can’t see how much water is in the bladder, so I measure my water before filling it. The connection point on the bladder causes a hard angle turn in the hose, but the hose is thick enough that it doesn’t seem to kink. Also, I wish the hose were a little longer since I have to snake it under my airbag, but never been content with my hydration method and access in the past and this seems to solve that problem.

 

[def90]

I used to do the 10 Mountain huts with friends. I pulled a sled in one time, never again, it sucked.

As for hauling stuff in this is where you need to buddy up. Get together and split common items and discard duplicates. You take the tent, your buddy takes the tank and so on.

If you want to try a sled do not simply pull it with rope, it will be all over the place. What I did is I cut two 6ft long pieces of 1/2 inch pvc conduit and ran each rope through the conduit and then attached the rope to a waist belt. All of the weight pulls from the waist belt and the pvc gives you control of the sled around corners and down hills.

 

[Clarktar]

While we’re talking ski touring, might as well talk gear. I’ve been using this Hydrapak insulated bladder and hose system so far this year with 0 freezing issues. I’ve had few mornings as cold as 6 degrees without any freezing. The bladder sleeve is a little bulky. Also, you can’t see how much water is in the bladder, so I measure my water before filling it. The connection point on the bladder causes a hard angle turn in the hose, but the hose is thick enough that it doesn’t seem to kink. Also, I wish the hose were a little longer since I have to snake it under my airbag, but never been content with my hydration method and access in the past and this seems to solve that problem.

I did away with the thick hose and just make sure I blow the hose out after each drink.

I've always dug a small snow cave for sleeping and wear boot liners into sleeping bag.



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[Poser]

I did away with the thick hose and just make sure I blow the hose out after each drink.

I've always dug a small snow cave for sleeping and wear boot liners into sleeping bag.



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Had any issue with frozen skins not sticking in the morning?

 

[Clarktar]

I have had that happen. If I stuck them together and put them in the bag with me they were fine.

I also recall just leaving them on the splits and they stuck fine. All of my tours were in the cascades and I don't recall any single digit temps which could be a factor.(?)

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[seldomseensmith]

@Poser: I went with that Weston Backwoods and Union Expedition bindings. Putting backpacking and snowboarding together is almost as exciting as when I realized backpacking and hunting together were a thing.
Haven't made it to WC yet this year cuz of the travel restrictions and it being a sensitive issue at work. Apparently real dangerous on the other side of that line.
I've got a heli waiting for me at Silverton so travel restrictions gonna be damned soon.
I ride with skiers and my wife tele skis so as far as splitboard mentors, this thread is the closest thing I have. Exciting times. Glad to see a few other people chipping in too. The transition from late season elk hunting to snowboarding is my favorite time of the year. Especially when the freezers full.


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