Mtn lion hunt/disaster

[Coldtrail]

I've owned hounds and run cats for most of my life, have done some guiding for bobcat and lion. I gave up any sort of guiding years ago due to all the variables that can happen & realized quickly that you can sour a client very easily even when things go right. My tag filling is limited to close friends and family these days along with just training dogs which is way more fun for me and stress free. For anyone seeking a guided lion hunt I'd recommend these tips:
1. Make sure you hunt with someone that has a "crew" each person with there own equipment and dogs, this eliminates many of the issues you talk about. Somebody gets a flat? Client goes into someone else's truck and back hunting while the tire gets fixed, same with broken UTVs & snowmobiles. Hurt/sick dogs? Another houndsmen turns his/her dogs out etc.....a one man show guided cat hunt can be done, but it's a rare houndsmen that can pull it off multiple times a year.
2. Get references, not online...ask for phone numbers and make calls.
3. Don't be afraid to ask what happens if things go wrong or you are unsuccessful. For our crew, if we had a good client and something went sideways we would put them on a call list for later in the season, if they were willing to come back we'd take them multiple times alongside other clients at no additional charge until they got what they wanted. It was rare we had two clients fighting over cats and many of them became good friends through the hunt. Other outfitters would take the full price for an unsuccessful hunt and then offer a second hunt at a reduced rate...know in advance what your options are.
4. Look for outfitters that run a tight ship, we had rules like "no drinking" to ensure everyone was in the game when the alarm clock rang...nobody wants to be a babysitter. We made it very clear that you are paying us to get you a cat & we will work as hard as needed to do that, even if we are running around all night to find the right track to turn out on in the morning. If you wanted to pay an outfitter to let you sleep in & take you to breakfast at 7am go elsewhere.

20+yrs ago to guide cats you needed, a good truck, snowmobile, and most importantly..... excellent dogs, and legs. Most of the new outfitters I see have the truck and tracked utv but lack dogs, legs and the discipline to work hard for a client. I know there are some very good outfitters out there, but the past few years there are lots of lazy ones getting on the scene due to lack of ambition to get a job and to take advantage of the tax write-off for toys along with working on their "online presence"

 

[RNhuntAK]

What an eye opening thread. After it all, I have to ask: what was your out of pocket costs for this hawt mess of a guided hunt?

No harm, no foul if you'd rather not say and a dollar range spent is good with me.


Eddie

$6500 for the on call hunt, $400 for lion tag/hunting license. $1000 for flights

 

[RNhuntAK]

I've owned hounds and run cats for most of my life, have done some guiding for bobcat and lion. I gave up any sort of guiding years ago due to all the variables that can happen & realized quickly that you can sour a client very easily even when things go right. My tag filling is limited to close friends and family these days along with just training dogs which is way more fun for me and stress free. For anyone seeking a guided lion hunt I'd recommend these tips:
1. Make sure you hunt with someone that has a "crew" each person with there own equipment and dogs, this eliminates many of the issues you talk about. Somebody gets a flat? Client goes into someone else's truck and back hunting while the tire gets fixed, same with broken UTVs & snowmobiles. Hurt/sick dogs? Another houndsmen turns his/her dogs out etc.....a one man show guided cat hunt can be done, but it's a rare houndsmen that can pull it off multiple times a year.
2. Get references, not online...ask for phone numbers and make calls.
3. Don't be afraid to ask what happens if things go wrong or you are unsuccessful. For our crew, if we had a good client and something went sideways we would put them on a call list for later in the season, if they were willing to come back we'd take them multiple times alongside other clients at no additional charge until they got what they wanted. It was rare we had two clients fighting over cats and many of them became good friends through the hunt. Other outfitters would take the full price for an unsuccessful hunt and then offer a second hunt at a reduced rate...know in advance what your options are.
4. Look for outfitters that run a tight ship, we had rules like "no drinking" to ensure everyone was in the game when the alarm clock rang...nobody wants to be a babysitter. We made it very clear that you are paying us to get you a cat & we will work as hard as needed to do that, even if we are running around all night to find the right track to turn out on in the morning. If you wanted to pay an outfitter to let you sleep in & take you to breakfast at 7am go elsewhere.

20+yrs ago to guide cats you needed, a good truck, snowmobile, and most importantly..... excellent dogs, and legs. Most of the new outfitters I see have the truck and tracked utv but lack dogs, legs and the discipline to work hard for a client. I know there are some very good outfitters out there, but the past few years there are lots of lazy ones getting on the scene due to lack of ambition to get a job and to take advantage of the tax write-off for toys along with working on their "online presence"

You make a lot of good points and I greatly appreciate the information. My neighbor gave me the recommendation from this outfitter and he had several good recommendations as well so I thought things were kosher. I talked with the outfitter via phone multiple times over the past couple years trying to coordinate the best conditions for me to come down from Alaska. I thought he made it clear that he gave a shot but that all changed once I arrived. His crew he used to have is now guiding additional clients and I was up and ready to go before he was each morning and he would head back to the house each day before dark because well " we'll kill one tomorrow for sure"
Thanks for the pointers and I'm not done with trying to find the true lion hunt experience. I've said it before and I'll say it a million times. I don't gauge the hunt on whether or not I kill something. I gauge it on the experience and did the outfitter give me the best chance to be successful. At the end of the day hunting is hunting and it's what I love to do and always will. Merry Christmas and safe travels in the great outdoors

 

[Ecampbell25]

Booked a mtn lion hunt with an outfitter in Wyoming back in 2021. I booked an on call hunt in order to give myself the best odds for the best conditions especially due to me traveling from Alaska and the added logistics and cost of flying rather than driving to the outfitter. Winter 2021/2022 came and went and the outfitter contacted me a couple times to start looking at flights however the snow fall didn't come to fruition and the plan was that the hunt would happen this winter.
I contacted the outfitter a couple weeks ago and asked if he was tracking a snow storm for his part of Wyoming that I'd seen on a weather app and he said he hadn't but would look into it and this may be the storm we were waiting for. Couple days later I get a call from the outfitter and he says they're calling for a good amount of snow so this might turn out pretty good but as with past storms,no guarantee that we truly get the snow they are predicting. I decide it's now or never and book the flight and fly to Casper, WY. On my way there, outfitter texts me and says roads are too bad tonight to pick you up so grab a motel and I'll pick you up in the morning. Frustrating but happy that the storm is actually happening and we'll have great conditions for the lion hunt.
Outfitter picks me up at the motel next morning and says conditions are great. There will be about a foot of snow on the ground when this is done tomorrow morning and you'll probably kill your lion on Thursday (this was said on Tuesday). We drive north to where outfitter lives. Outfitter offers me to stay in the spare bedroom of his house rather than at the little motel room. Outfitter says he doesn't normally let hunters stay at his house with his family but I seemed like a good guy so the option was for me to choose. I chose to stay in the house rather than a motel room. When we get to the house, outfitter says he will apologize in advance that the house smells like a rotten mouse that is in the house somewhere but he'll find it and take care of it. Wasn't a major deal but he never did try to resolve the rotting mouse situation aside from having his wife light some candles.
Getting to the important part now. We hunted 5.5 days in what the outfitter said where perfect conditions and only cut 2 sets of several day old lion tracks. The outfitter day in and day out would say we were going to go do one thing and then do something different almost always related to the fact that equipment/transportation he'd plan to use wouldn't run or was broken. His side by side he had tracks for, he waited until day 3 of the hunt to call the hunt that day short to travel back to the house to put the tracks on the side by side..... correction...one of his other houndsmen guides and I put the tracks on while he took pictures for Snapchat. Same thing happened the next day when he had to use the old little bronco to hunt from because the side by side wouldn't run properly. We blew a tire on the bronco up in the mountains. He had no jack in the vehicle but fortunately he had a spare tire so we found a log and rock to run it up on and once again I had to change the tire while he took Snapchat videos. He admitted that he doesn't take care of his equipment and he loaned some of his good dogs to his brother to go lion hunting with. He admitted that he needs to spend more time with his pups because after letting his brother take 2 of his good dogs he only had 1dog that could run more than 1day. He also wanted to turn the dogs out on every damn bobcat track even though that was not what we were after. He spent approximately half the time the last 3 days on the phone talking with his fellow colleagues from the local college as he is a rodeo coach trying to figure out how to get students eligible through loopholes due to failing grades etc.....
The point of all this is that I spent a lot of money to go on this on-call lion hunt and the outfitter was ill prepared and his priority was not helping a paying hunter but worrying about 5 other things. The number of lies I heard by this outfitter in one week was unreal. I don't think a good hunt is measured by a kill but rather by the experience. In this situation the experience was an expensive learning situation. I could go on with more examples but I think I've presented a good picture of the situation.
If you want to know the name of the outfit send me a message and Ill be glad to provide that and save you money and alot of frustration.
Merry Christmas outdoorsmen and women

Man that’s a real bummer. I am a hunting and fishing guide in central Idaho and would never come up with excuses like that. Hopefully you didn’t tip him! Best thing you can ever be with clients is up front and honest. Especially with expectations. Sounds like your hunt was a total gong show. If it makes ya feel any better I went on a fishing trip to Hawaii and the captain told me on the phone it was going to be 800$ for 6 hr charter. I thought man that’s expensive but I’ll probably never be back. What the heck… let’s do it. The captain drove me around in circles for 6 hrs we caught 2 tuna… one that they took to market (boat rule)?!! And one I got to keep! Then when I went to pay the 800$ they told me he said 1800$ on the phone! And that I miss heard the captain!!!! It was a terrible experience and I learned my lesson. Always try to research your outfitter. There are a ton of bad ones out there!

 

[Coldtrail]

You make a lot of good points and I greatly appreciate the information. My neighbor gave me the recommendation from this outfitter and he had several good recommendations as well so I thought things were kosher. I talked with the outfitter via phone multiple times over the past couple years trying to coordinate the best conditions for me to come down from Alaska. I thought he made it clear that he gave a shot but that all changed once I arrived. His crew he used to have is now guiding additional clients and I was up and ready to go before he was each morning and he would head back to the house each day before dark because well " we'll kill one tomorrow for sure"
Thanks for the pointers and I'm not done with trying to find the true lion hunt experience. I've said it before and I'll say it a million times. I don't gauge the hunt on whether or not I kill something. I gauge it on the experience and did the outfitter give me the best chance to be successful. At the end of the day hunting is hunting and it's what I love to do and always will. Merry Christmas and safe travels in the great outdoors

In no way interpret my post to imply you didn't do your homework, sounds like you did what you could to line up a good hunt and it just didn't work. Guiding "well" is a tough business with lots of variables that change daily with weather, dogs, people, etc....I recognized that early on & decided it wasn't for me. I admittedly can deal with hounds, cats, tracking, packing shooters in to trees, and dealing with equipment, but throw scheduling, crew dynamics & a mix of client personalities into the mix and I could never run the entire operation. I can recognize that but others take longer to realize it or refuse to realize it. Ultimately it's just another business and some are better at running a business than others.

I hope you end up with a successful hunt and a good story to tell, any cat hunt can be an awesome adventure

 

[SDHNTR]

Man that’s a real bummer. I am a hunting and fishing guide in central Idaho and would never come up with excuses like that. Hopefully you didn’t tip him! Best thing you can ever be with clients is up front and honest. Especially with expectations. Sounds like your hunt was a total gong show. If it makes ya feel any better I went on a fishing trip to Hawaii and the captain told me on the phone it was going to be 800$ for 6 hr charter. I thought man that’s expensive but I’ll probably never be back. What the heck… let’s do it. The captain drove me around in circles for 6 hrs we caught 2 tuna… one that they took to market (boat rule)?!! And one I got to keep! Then when I went to pay the 800$ they told me he said 1800$ on the phone! And that I miss heard the captain!!!! It was a terrible experience and I learned my lesson. Always try to research your outfitter. There are a ton of bad ones out there!

$800 for a half day charter is so cheap that should have been obviously wrong from the onset. Fuel is at least $1+ more per gallon than pump gas and it’s not uncommon for boats to get about 1 mile per gallon or worse. Do the math. And the boat keeping fish is how it’s done all over HI. Standard practice. Sorry, but you didn’t do your research.

 

[Ecampbell25]

$800 for a half day charter is so cheap that should have been obviously wrong from the onset. Fuel is at least $1+ more per gallon than pump gas and it’s not uncommon for boats to get about 1 mile per gallon or worse. Do the math. And the boat keeping fish is how it’s done all over HI. Standard practice. Sorry, but you didn’t do your

$800 for a half day charter is so cheap that should have been obviously wrong from the onset. Fuel is at least $1+ more per gallon than pump gas and it’s not uncommon for boats to get about 1 mile per gallon or worse. Do the math. And the boat keeping fish is how it’s done all over HI. Standard practice. Sorry, but you didn’t do your research.

I guess so… the crew were nice enough kids and I get sometimes fishing can be tough… but to only catch 2 fish in 6 hrs for that type of money its a big nut to crack… 900$ a fish!

 

[Steve O]

Sorry for your bad experience. Cougars are my nemesis. I have hunted 7 times with 5 different outfitters in 4 states and Alberta for 42 days and never treed a big tom. When I call, cougar outfitters don't answer or quickly hang up!!

I know how you feel. I have 30 days in with the best lion man in Montana. With my job I have to plan vacation so unfortunately the “on call” hunt was not an option for me. I’m sure I am the only hunter he has ever had that has not taken their lion. It is definitely not from lack of trying. We covered an incredible amount of land by all manners of vehicle and foot. I’ve got an open invitation to come back but I’m good with the hound hunting experience. If I get one in the future it may just be a diy affair in AZ once I retire. I’ve got 12 or the “Super 10” but no shiny certificate for me without my nemesis the mountain lion.

And OP, that really stinks. I think that happens with lions more than any other “guided” hunt. A lot of those houndsmen are just a little bit different.

 

[SDHNTR]

Haha. Unfortunately, no. I’ve been on many trips costing much more and not catching a thing. It happens.

 

[SDHNTR]

I know how you feel. I have 30 days in with the best lion man in Montana. With my job I have to plan vacation so unfortunately the “on call” hunt was not an option for me. I’m sure I am the only hunter he has ever had that has not taken their lion. It is definitely not from lack of trying. We covered an incredible amount of land by all manners of vehicle and foot. I’ve got an open invitation to come back but I’m good with the hound hunting experience. If I get one in the future it may just be a diy affair in AZ once I retire. I’ve got 12 or the “Super 10” but no shiny certificate for me without my nemesis the mountain lion.

And OP, that really stinks. I think that happens with lions more than any other “guided” hunt. A lot of those houndsmen are just a little bit different.

Haha. Unfortunately, no. I’ve been on many trips costing much more and not catching a thing. It happens.

You can’t touch the keys on my boat without it being a minimum $500 day, usually closer to twice that. And I’m not trying to turn a profit!

 

[Broomd]

$800 for a half day charter is so cheap that should have been obviously wrong from the onset. Fuel is at least $1+ more per gallon than pump gas and it’s not uncommon for boats to get about 1 mile per gallon or worse. Do the math. And the boat keeping fish is how it’s done all over HI. Standard practice. Sorry, but you didn’t do your research.

Holy sh!t, I need to get out more. $800 for a half day is cheap? Good lord....

 

[SDHNTR]

Holy sh!t, I need to get out more. $800 for a half day is cheap? Good lord....

Around here a private 4 or 6 pack 1/2 day charter starts at about $1200 for inshore and goes to about 2-3x that for a full day offshore. Even at that, I have no idea how they make money.

 

[Preston]

I know how you feel. I have 30 days in with the best lion man in Montana. With my job I have to plan vacation so unfortunately the “on call” hunt was not an option for me. I’m sure I am the only hunter he has ever had that has not taken their lion. It is definitely not from lack of trying. We covered an incredible amount of land by all manners of vehicle and foot. I’ve got an open invitation to come back but I’m good with the hound hunting experience. If I get one in the future it may just be a diy affair in AZ once I retire. I’ve got 12 or the “Super 10” but no shiny certificate for me without my nemesis the mountain lion.

And OP, that really stinks. I think that happens with lions more than any other “guided” hunt. A lot of those houndsmen are just a little bit different.

Don’t feel bad, I hunted two different hounds over six years and only treed two smaller lions, ran a bunch of bobcats and treed a lot of coons.That was with one Leopard Hound that did most of the treeing the other Walker hound was worthless. I would prefer to tree a bobcat any day over a lion. It seemed to me the hardest part of lion hunting was finding a runnable track. I normally only found about one track every 5 times out and wolves/snow conditions limited where I could hunt

 

[wytx]

Call Shaymus Wyman out of Laramie, talk with him about your hunt and situation. He's a great guy and takes some big cats in these parts.

Sorry about the ordeal, don't give up yet.

 

[Jon Boy]

HK hounds is an excellent outfit in Utah if you guys are looking for another outfit to go with. And his dogs are top notch. He runs them every. Single. Day. We ran all winter long when he lived in Montana. Sure do miss those days but love seeing him do well down south. Pretty amazing to watch hunter work his pack. Truly an incredible thing to watch.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[TheGrayRider]

Sorry about your situation with that outfitter. Do not give up. Lion hunting ain’t easy by any means. I love running hounds for mountain lions in the mountains. Nothing better than listening to a good houndman’s dogs on a hot track. Check out central Utah. Quite a few good operators there. Best of luck, TheGrayRider.

 

[2ski]

I've fished twice in Hawaii for around 2/300 each time on a shared boat. I'm pretty sure it wasn't almost 2k for a solo trip. But the rule of the game was the boat keeps the fish. Silly I think. So I'm paying to earn you money selling fish?

I've had two experiences. First one, there was one fish caught. Hated the experience. Second one, noone caught fish and I loved the experience. Captain and mate were awesome. The rest of the people I shared it with were awesome.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Caught a 52" Wahoo out of St.Lucia once,,,,,never got a bite of that fish.
All I wanted was a couple steaks, but they wouldnt even measure it.
Had to steal some mono to get a length and measure back home.
Sucks.
I've dealt with a couple cheapskates on guided hunting trips also.

 

[Hunt eat repeat]

As I was reading the story I thought “that sounds like Forbes. I hunted antelope with them twice. It wasn’t a “bad” experience but it was very lackluster. We killed antelope both trips and had a good time. They run a pretty half ass operation though. I think bad outfitters should be roasted on these forums IMHO. Some guys save for years for these hunts and to get hosed with a bad experience is unacceptable. But also if you have a good experience post it and let folks know.

 

[COelk89]

That is a real bummer and I agree with the other sentiment expressed that this is why I will always be leery of outfitters. Like you said no excuse for the equipment failures and lack of adequate replacement. I would be super pissed. Lion hunting has gotten really popular it seems but probably a lot of unskilled houndsmen out there blowing up tracks. If I was paying guided I would probably inquire as to if we would be hunting private or landlocked public that did not have quite the traffic.