Mountain Maggots....I hate sheep (domestic)

[Jason]

Have any of you had any trouble with flocks of sheep (1000's of them) grazing through areas you scouted for deer? I've had plenty of run-ins with sheep, the shepherds and their hostile dogs; but it hasn't seemed to affect the deer too much or my success in finding bucks. But this year I cant seem to get away from them, everywhere I go, I run into sheep. I'm also finding about half the bucks that I usually do, and I'm confident that sheep are to blame.

The sheep will eventually be gone, but will the bucks return to where they were before the sheep came through?
Thanks,
Jason

 

[muleman]

Yeah, had them move through before, stripping all the vegetation in the area.

 

[OR Archer]

On my first trip to Colorado a few years ago I had absolutely no clue that there were sheep grazing in the area we planned to hunt. Never even crossed my mind to check on such a thing. I personally think this pushed the bigger bucks out of the area. We still saw plenty of does and small bucks but not the mature bucks we were after. Ill be checking on grazing sheep before I head back next year.

 

[bbrown]

Not with sheep but the area I hunt in has cattle and the FS requires them to be moved every couple days to keep them from over grazing. An ol' cowboy with his 3 dogs (one of which is a Jack Russell) rides up every day or 2 to push the cattle from drainage to drainage. That really seems to help with the over grazing.

I am surprised the FS does not make the sheep guys do the same thing - assuming this is on national forest.

 

[Liv2HntBigBullz]

Sheep guys are required to keep their herds moving. The difference is in how each of the animals graze. Sheep have much smaller mouths than cattle which allows them to eat closer to the ground, giving the ground much more of an "overgrazed" look.

I don't think the livestock are what bother game animals, but the herders and their dogs in the area certainly push critters into hiding. They are likely pushed into draws and tucked away places to avoid the activity.

If you do run into herders and "puede hablar espanol" they can be an invaluable resource.

 

[mt hunter22]

in nevada last year i finally got into a big basin that looked really good just to hear bells dinging all over and sheep bawling.. oh well

 

[Tag stew]

No doubt the sheep push the deer a little, but yes they don't go far and will usually come back. My family took around 2000 sheep up to the sierra's and Nevada every summer and it was a good chance to see the country and lot's of deer and unfortunately bears. Many years we went back in the fall and killed those same deer in the same area's. Plus we need those sheep for all our first lite gear! J/k Although they prolly are not Merino sheep.

 

[Sunspot]

They are hell on the wild sheep.

 

[Hardstalk]

They are hell on the wild sheep.

Interesting, I've heard the opposite. Ive heard of wild sheep in cali following the domestic sheep at times. Theres one way the wild sheep know how to stay safe from predators. Stay near the domestic sheep. Legal or not. No lions are going close to a cali sheepherders herd. Hint hint.

Ive also heard alot of the " sickness" associated with the crossing of domestic sheep bacteria and wild animals is nothing but poprykosh. Its a way for gov. To point a finger and claim back land that farmers are fighting their ass off to keep.

 

[Jason]

You guys are right about the shepherds keeping them moved every few days. I'm sure they'll be gone in a few days, I'm just hoping the bucks will return to the normal areas I've seen them after the sheep are gone.

I think the sheep put a pretty big dent in the groceries, but hopefully not enough to make the bucks leave the area. The dogs are a problem for sure. I watched two of them chase a doe for a ways before losing interest. It made me wonder if they ever catch and kill deer?

I'll be going back to a few of these places in the following weeks...I guess I'll find out if the absence of sheep makes a big different in buck sighting and behavior. Plus the one of the shepherds told me about two "venado grande" that I need to look for.

 

[Jason]

Good info Tag Stew. It's nice to know those same deer hung around. I love my FirstLite gear too

 

[HellsCanyon]

Interesting, I've heard the opposite. Ive heard of wild sheep in cali following the domestic sheep at times. Theres one way the wild sheep know how to stay safe from predators. Stay near the domestic sheep. Legal or not. No lions are going close to a cali sheepherders herd. Hint hint.

Ive also heard alot of the " sickness" associated with the crossing of domestic sheep bacteria and wild animals is nothing but poprykosh. Its a way for gov. To point a finger and claim back land that farmers are fighting their ass off to keep.

Not true. There is a very real danger with domestic sheep getting wild sheep sick. The issue is when they are in direct physical contact with eachother and get nose to nose. It's basically a mild cold for domestic sheep but to wild sheep it's like pnuemonia and spreads very quickly. The agencies will cull any sheep they suspect or prove have been in contact with domestic sheep to keep them from getting back and infecting more wild sheep.

Mike

 

[Hardstalk]

Not true. There is a very real danger with domestic sheep getting wild sheep sick. The issue is when they are in direct physical contact with eachother and get nose to nose. It's basically a mild cold for domestic sheep but to wild sheep it's like pnuemonia and spreads very quickly. The agencies will cull any sheep they suspect or prove have been in contact with domestic sheep to keep them from getting back and infecting more wild sheep.

Mike

They same the same for pack goats and llamas ya?

 

[MLHSN]

Interesting, I didn't realize sheep are still a problem in areas. Everywhere I hike in WA became wilderness a minimum of several decades ago. Most places here have not seen sheep in 40 years at least. What part of the country still sees a lot of sheep?

 

[HellsCanyon]

They same the same for pack goats and llamas ya?

Yep they do, least for the goats. A few years back the bighorn sheep herd in the Yakima WA canyon got infected and they went in and culled a lot of sheep because they came into contact with some domestic sheep. It's more common with large herds because you're more likely to have a sick sheep than some one's pet pack goat.

Mike

 

[Sunspot]

Interesting, I've heard the opposite. Ive heard of wild sheep in cali following the domestic sheep at times. Theres one way the wild sheep know how to stay safe from predators. Stay near the domestic sheep. Legal or not. No lions are going close to a cali sheepherders herd. Hint hint.

Ive also heard alot of the " sickness" associated with the crossing of domestic sheep bacteria and wild animals is nothing but poprykosh. Its a way for gov. To point a finger and claim back land that farmers are fighting their ass off to keep.

It's not poprykosh; it is a fact.. The biologists (one's a friend) I know that work directly on wild sheep management tell a different story. They don't care about reclaiming land or expanding their domestic business. If you were to put a domestic with a wild in a living area, the wild will die every time. In 2010, pneumonia decimated 99% of the RMB sheep in the Ruby's and now the Desert Bighorn herd near Old Dad Mountain in SoCal is in huge trouble too. Guess what happened to be in the area w/o explanation? Domestic goat.

 

[Tag stew]

I can't comment on the Wild sheep as we did not run our's near any wild sheep, but what is being described is what we called blue tounge. Mlhsn they still run sheep up in the mountains in the summer in a few places here in N.Cal but not a lot. We stopped taking sheep to the mountains long ago, as a matter of fact the rest of my family all moved to CO and still have sheep but don.t take them to the mountains anymore. But like I said we did go back up and harvest some of the same deer up in the mountains as well as shot a lot of bucks on our ranch down in the foothills that the deer and sheep both co-existed most of the year. Jason I'm not surprised you are seeing less deer in your spot if sheep,sheep hearders, dogs are in the area but from my experience that is just temporary.

 

[2ski]

Pnemonia in wild sheep transmitted by domestics is a real issue. In MT some herds of wild sheep have been completely decimated. Other herds have had to have something like 90% of the herd killed by the Fish and Game to stop the transmission to the rest of the herd. And they are not trying to take back land. If I remember correctly, the rancher has a lease for something like 200 years to be able to run sheep on the forest service land. They are pretty much impossible to take away, so they don't even try. They look for mountain ranges that don't have leases to introduce sheep. I know of a mountain range that would be perfect for sheep, but they won't introduce them because there are too many sheep leases. I could be wrong on some of my specific #'s, but I've always been told that the domestic sheep dictate where they have wild sheep, and they don't try to get rid of domestic sheep to do so.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Interesting, I didn't realize sheep are still a problem in areas. Everywhere I hike in WA became wilderness a minimum of several decades ago. Most places here have not seen sheep in 40 years at least. What part of the country still sees a lot of sheep?

I actually managed a few leases in WA where sheep still graze. One is up the Teanaway and the other is near the Yakima reservation.

Mike

 

[Rizzy]

Bucks don't like activity, so they will usually disappear to another area of their home range while there are sheep and cattle present. Unfortunately they go to less productive areas and are in direct competition with the other grazers and browsers like sheep, cattle, wild horses, and wild donkeys, so there are lasting effects beyond the grazing season.
Domestic sheep and cattle eat the good groceries up to a level above the ground that Fawns can't reach. The Does don't know this because they can still reach the good forage and are doing fine so they don't necessarily move to new areas. Now the fawns are going into winter with low body weight and are easy to catch for the predators and more susceptible to a harsh winter. But it's the predators and winter weather that's killing them off right?