Montana season change proposal

[S.Clancy]

I hunt in R3 as well, racking up a lot of days in the field, mostly chasing elk. The areas I hunt hold good deer habitat, yet a deer sighting is almost nil. Rarely even a single track. It leaves me scratching my head on why?

I would argue if the habitat is actually good there would be deer there. I hunt places in R3 that are overrun with deer, other's nothing. Generally looking for elk in good elk habitat you won't see a ton of deer

 

[Formidilosus]

Quality of the hunt also played in to this. The current season structure congests hunters to a very specific time window (rut), and location (winter range).

The general units in Montana have turned in to an absolute rodeo during the rut, and the quality of the hunt has been diminished significantly.

I was the region 2 representative in this group, and spreading hunting pressure out was a big motivation for me.

“Quality” defined by who exactly? It’s ALWAYS quality is “big bucks”. I have never shot a fork horn or young mule deer buck, never a MD doe, but it’s complete BS that everything driving deer “management” and “quality” is the amount of large bucks.

Every single state sucks to hunt because you can’t get tags due to “quality”. It’s ok for one state to be “opportunity” and “time”.

 

[Randy11]

“Quality” defined by who exactly? It’s ALWAYS quality is “big bucks”. I have never shot a fork horn or young mule deer buck, never a MD doe, but it’s complete BS that everything driving deer “management” and “quality” is the amount of large bucks.

Every single state sucks to hunt because you can’t get tags due to “quality”. It’s ok for one state to be “opportunity” and “time”.

Did you even read the post you replied to?

I'm talking about pressure. 3 of the last 4 seasons I've had to finish off other people's wounded deer. Lots of hunters plus congested deer is a bad combo.

 

[finner]

“Quality” defined by who exactly? It’s ALWAYS quality is “big bucks”. I have never shot a fork horn or young mule deer buck, never a MD doe, but it’s complete BS that everything driving deer “management” and “quality” is the amount of large bucks.

Every single state sucks to hunt because you can’t get tags due to “quality”. It’s ok for one state to be “opportunity” and “time”.

If you don't live in Montana and have the means to hunt multiple states, I can certainly understand that perspective. If you live here and want to see more mature animals on the landscape, then this isn't a bad idea.

 

[mtwarden]

I’ve hunted region 3 for almost 40 years have only taken 1 mule deer. I’m not scratching my head as to why. Decades of hunting through November has a cost.

It's just not bucks I'm not seeing, it's a rare sighting to see even a doe. Plenty of available habitat, just no deer—very odd.

What's odd is we have a ton of mule deer in town, enough so they are culling them (varies how many each year by a count they do) in the city limits. They live trap them, kill them with a bolt gun, process the meat (I think all burger) and then distribute the meat. I keep thinking— maybe truck some of them (well out of town) and let them go???????

 

[Pony Soldier]

I hunt 318, 350. 322, 380s. Through the early 90s there were hundfeds of deer - everywhere. In the 60s, outdoor life had articles of trophy mule deer in area 350.

In about 1994, they disappeared. I found skeletons of bucks, does and fawns in draws and gulches. Not around water like you see in blue tounge epidemics but depressions near the upper part of the ridges. Usually the skeletons were intact- not dispersed like you see with predators.

Since then the survivors have countinued to decline but the indication is from wolves and cats. My last summer mule deer on the ranch disappeared 2 years ago. From 30 to 0 between 1989 and 2022. The last ten years the population hung around 4 with a couple of fawns each year and then nothing.

The consistant elk population was cut in half with the shoulder season in 2017. There hasn't been a recovery of any kind. I live here and hunt here. I see the trends year by year. They aren't good.

My feeling is that FWP management resembles crisis management as opposed to science and long term management. Maybe funding based on success as opposed to failure should be considered.

 

[Formidilosus]

Did you even read the post you replied to?

I'm talking about pressure. 3 of the last 4 seasons I've had to finish off other people's wounded deer. Lots of hunters plus congested deer is a bad combo.

And you believe shortening the season, and separating elk and deer is going to lesson the pressure on deer? Think through that thought process.

 

[Formidilosus]

If you don't live in Montana and have the means to hunt multiple states, I can certainly understand that perspective. If you live here and want to see more mature animals on the landscape, then this isn't a bad idea.

I am quite familiar with what is happening in Montana.

If you “want to see more mature animals” then just say “I don’t care about numbers, or herd “health”- I just want a trophy from the truck”.

Because that’s what it is. Thats ignoring why you wanting to see more mature animals, should matter more than the vast majority that just want to hunt.

Again- why does every single state have to be a trophy state? Why can’t one be for normal hunters. There are already “trophy” units you can apply for.

 

[Randy11]

And you believe shortening the season, and separating elk and deer is going to lesson the pressure on deer? Think through that thought process.

Taking the season out of the rut will absolutely help distribute pressure. Go visit the Custer this season on Novemeber 1, then again on the 15th.

What part of MT do you live in?

 

[bigsky2]

“Quality” defined by who exactly? It’s ALWAYS quality is “big bucks”. I have never shot a fork horn or young mule deer buck, never a MD doe, but it’s complete BS that everything driving deer “management” and “quality” is the amount of large bucks.

Every single state sucks to hunt because you can’t get tags due to “quality”. It’s ok for one state to be “opportunity” and “time”.

Crowding is a major factor in quality of the hunt. In my region in central MT, isolated parcels of state land will often times have multiple vehicles hunting them at once. That might be manageable in heavily timbered areas, but in the open country we have in the eastern half of the state that is crowded. Those little parcels of state are literally getting hunted every single day of the season by multiple parties.

 

[cgasner1]

“Quality” defined by who exactly? It’s ALWAYS quality is “big bucks”. I have never shot a fork horn or young mule deer buck, never a MD doe, but it’s complete BS that everything driving deer “management” and “quality” is the amount of large bucks.

Every single state sucks to hunt because you can’t get tags due to “quality”. It’s ok for one state to be “opportunity” and “time”.

The group also realizes that deer are like people. I was never built to run a football in the nfl. Just like most bucks would probably be lucky to park in the 160” this isn’t about trophy hunting if it was the group would have pushed for straight up le tags across the board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bigsky2]

And you believe shortening the season, and separating elk and deer is going to lesson the pressure on deer? Think through that thought process.

Without a doubt. I’ve seen graphs from FWP where it shows mule deer harvest trending perfectly in line with the elk hunting pressure. There’s a lot of mule deer that are getting killed by elk hunters. Requiring hunters to choose a deer species will also take a lot of pressure off of mule deer and spread out deer hunters with the mule deer and whitetail seasons occurring at different times.

 

[Formidilosus]

Taking the season out of the rut will absolutely help distribute pressure. Go visit the Custer this season on Novemeber 1, then again on the 15th.

No it won’t. I’ve hunted the Custer.

What part of MT do you live in?

What does where I live in Montana have to do with deer hunting in eastern MT? I average a bit more than 3 weeks a year hunting the east. Shortening the season only pushes more people to the same spots in a shorter time, and separating elk and deer seasons only makes it where more people can hunt deer in the east. Think through this.

 

[Formidilosus]

Without a doubt. I’ve seen graphs from FWP where it shows mule deer harvest trending perfectly in line with the elk hunting pressure. There’s a lot of mule deer that are getting killed by elk hunters. Requiring hunters to choose a deer species will also take a lot of pressure off of mule deer and spread out deer hunters with the mule deer and whitetail seasons occurring at different times.

There’s a lot of elk hunters in the east?

 

[Jeremyc_1999]

There’s a lot of elk hunters in the east?

Yes. The breaks are crawling with them

 

[Flatgo]

I think it is good that we are looking at changing the season structure and having discussions that there are issues with game on public land in Montana. The frustrating thing that I see with this proposal is how are we going to measure if this proposal is successful or not. I think prior to making any changes we need to do some serious data collection so we atleast have a baseline to measure against. un intended consequences are a bitch. with the current proposal is see mule deer getting piss pounded in october. i may be wrong, but without baseline data i am not sure how we measure if that's an issue or not.

also this proposal does not address the major issue that different areas of the state have different needs. we should not be managing elk or deer in region 1 as we are in region 7 which what we are currently doing.

 

[bigsky2]

There’s a lot of elk hunters in the east?

Tons of them. SE MT is one of the most popular areas in the state to hunt elk right now.

 

[Formidilosus]

People in the west are odd. I guess people from one type of place are. Anywhere you decreases available time to hunt- you increase pressure and number of animals killed.

 

[Formidilosus]

Tons of them. SE MT is one of the most popular areas in the state to hunt elk right now.

Based on what?

 

[Randy11]

Think through this.

This is condescending bullshit.

You obviously are woefully unaware of what's happening in MT. Some of us actually DO live here, and have seen the spiral of the last 20-30 years.