Montana Rut

[406huntermt]

Haha that’s from my deer at the taxidermist bud all those little ones are ones he’s found and fixed up good try though I like how you’re reaching really hard keep it up

 

[Deucebump]

Im well aware of what big antlers look like, lol, millions of youtube videos and pics online of them. But how sweet of you to post more of them! Trust me, if I was one of the chosen ones and a resident like yourself, and had all year to scout and probably hunt some nice private land, and had 4+ weeks to hunt, I would gladly pass up smaller racked bucks for ones like pics you posted. And if you think 90% of NR or Resident public hunters in Eastern MT are going to pass up 3 yr old deer, you are only laughing at yourself. Please explain to me the definition of mature, not antler size…..

 

[406huntermt]

Not one of those deer is a private land deer and a 3 year old deer is not a mature aged animal no matter how you look at it keep it up though you’re part of the problem have a good season

 

[OpenCountry]

Heck of a way to welcome yourself to the forum. I only see 3 bucks posted, so Ill assume mine was one of the “small young bucks” you are referring to. Not sure how you age deer, but that is a mature deer. Not a 5yr old but not a deer many are going to pass up in eastern Mt. And he was likely not going to have back forks as he got older. Im sure if you look at all the outfitters from the area websites you will see that is the respectable buck for the area, and your state outfitters are more than happy to take clients money and shoot every young buck they can to post on their website to sell more hunts. And as a DIY NR public land hunter, Im not going to pass up a mature buck after actually passing up young bucks for days before, and having used a weeks vacation and spent several thousands in gas and tag fees. The increase in tag fees and lower tag limits for NR that you so badly want will only make that reality worse. The harder and more expensive it is for NR to get tags, the less likely they are to go home with a tag in their pocket, and will shoot a yearly just to fill that tag. So always be careful what ya wish for! Oh, and welcome to the forum!

He’s not wrong. People wonder why the buck quality is junk and numbers are down, yet people just can’t go home without a deer. That’s directed at both residents and nonresidents. A “mature” doe provides more meat than most people’s last day “mature” bucks to punch that tag. It’s funny how a 160” was noted as a good buck not to long ago. Then a 150” became noted as a good buck. Funny to see how quickly we’ve already dropped into the 130s- 140s being called mature, old warriors, etc. Good thing is it’s tanking faster than I thought so maybe we will see some awesome change come sooner than later. By all means I hope all hunters keep shooting every deer that moves so we can speed the process up!

 

[BRTreedogs]

Haha that’s from my deer at the taxidermist bud all those little ones are ones he’s found and fixed up good try though I like how you’re reaching really hard keep it up

I could give a flying F how cool you think you are.
I don't think your cool, nobody else thinks your cool.
Litterly nobody cares about your stupid cry baby crap but you.

 

[406huntermt]

I could give a flying F how cool you think you are.
I don't think your cool, nobody else thinks your cool.
Litterly nobody cares about your stupid cry baby crap but you.

You must care you haven’t stopped commenting and anyone that hunts in Montana should care before it’s gone I’m more so worried for my kids and not out of staters also not trying to be cool but you posted your dumb little meme to try and be cool have a good season I hope you stay in Oregon

 

[Dos Perros]

Agree Montana needs to cool it on the deer tags. I won't go back for 4 or 5 years.

 

[Team4LongGun]

You must care you haven’t stopped commenting and anyone that hunts in Montana should care before it’s gone I’m more so worried for my kids and not out of staters also not trying to be cool but you posted your dumb little meme to try and be cool have a good season I hope you stay in Oregon

Gents-

Keep it civil.

New guy-try some punctuation.

 

[slowelk]

In general I think non-residents are more concerned about filling a tag than they are about the quality of next year's, and the year afters hunt.

I firmly believe increased fees and reduced tags for non-residents will improve the quality of the hunting for all.

This thread isn't for debating the impact of non-resident hunters on deer quality in MT though. I've said my piece and won't say any more in this thread.

 

[Erict]

Not one of those deer is a private land deer and a 3 year old deer is not a mature aged animal no matter how you look at it keep it up though you’re part of the problem have a good season

Last I looked, the tag issued by FWP is for "antlered deer", not "mature antlered deer". I don't see the "problem" with a licensed hunter shooting a spike or "meat buck"if that makes them happy. If it's a "problem", then FWP can pursue statewide antler restrictions.

A "local" hunter has many advantages that allow them to be "choosey" if they want. More time to hunt, more knowledge of what is realistic in an area, able to skip bad weather weeks, more knowledge of the effects of weather/disease/predation in the past year.

A "travelling" hunter, R or NR, who makes a long trek with limited time to hunt has many disadvantages. They are less likely to know what is realistic, less likely to know what a "mature" deer is, has no choice but to hunt the weather of the week, has less info on herd health and, no doubt, often feel that they don't want to go home with tag soup. Given that the average "NR" can't even draw every year, they aren't going to see the rewards of passing on smaller bucks.

Let's not leave out the outfitters/guides. Clients often pay a lot of money to hunt in areas where there are simply few "mature" deer. Are you going to blame them for encouraging clients to take a "representative" buck, or should they be telling clients to hold out for the non-existant "160-class" buck? How many clients likely to return if the guide keeps telling them to pass on "3-year olds"?

Lastly - a few years back, my crew pulled in to the local hardware store because they wanted to buy some antlerless tags for meat. None left because the Residents bought them all up at $10/each, many saying they weren't going to use them, but just wanted to buy them up to keep others from shooting does. If the travelling hunter can't even buy a "doe" tag, expect more of them to use their "buck" tag for meat.

Sorry, but looks like this older thread is headed down the off-topic road.

 

[406huntermt]

You’re part of the problem… there was a group of Washington guys that shot 80 mule deer does this year! that’s some awesome conservation right there. Just because you can buy extra tags and just because you spent 800 bucks on a buck tag doesn’t mean you need to shoot everything that moves! Spending all that money to come here and shoot a deer that barely fills the freezer that you will “eat all year” it would be easier to buy a beef and actually fill the freezer and support your local rancher. You know it’s pretty crazy when you talk to other non res and they are complaining about all the other non res around! Like I said we keep it up no one will be able to hunt anymore

 

[realunlucky]

@406huntermt use your vacation to reflect on how you've chosen to interact with the members here.

 

[Scottf270]

I'll agree 406huntermt maybe should have stated his opinion once and or started another thread, but he's not wrong. Some may view his comments as poor taste but when folks post on an open forum they open themselves up to others comments. Both positive and negative. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

I'm assuming he's in time out? Is this another example of "snowflake" syndrome where we can't express a different opinion whether it's truthful or not because it might "hurt" someone's feeling?

It's evident to anyone with a brain that there is too much pressure on a shrinking resource. Pretending there is not a problem helps no one. MT FWP issues too many tags, too many hunters are unwilling to go home empty, thinking they are owed something for their $800 tag donation.

We could all have a tag if everyone would restrict harvest. I just want to hunt. I'm fine going home empty. How about others? Is it about the opportunity to hunt or do you "have" to kill? If you have to kill, you are certainly adding to the strain on the resource.

Ps: Don't give me the song about the meat. $800 buys a lot of beef.

In short, take your tag, go hunt, enjoy the resource, but be willing to go home empty to benefit the animals you say you love.

 

[bsnedeker]

I'll agree 406huntermt maybe should have stated his opinion once and or started another thread, but he's not wrong. Some may view his comments as poor taste but when folks post on an open forum they open themselves up to others comments. Both positive and negative. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

I'm assuming he's in time out? Is this another example of "snowflake" syndrome where we can't express a different opinion whether it's truthful or not because it might "hurt" someone's feeling?

It's evident to anyone with a brain that there is too much pressure on a shrinking resource. Pretending there is not a problem helps no one. MT FWP issues too many tags, too many hunters are unwilling to go home empty, thinking they are owed something for their $800 tag donation.

We could all have a tag if everyone would restrict harvest. I just want to hunt. I'm fine going home empty. How about others? Is it about the opportunity to hunt or do you "have" to kill? If you have to kill, you are certainly adding to the strain on the resource.

Ps: Don't give me the song about the meat. $800 buys a lot of beef.

In short, take your tag, go hunt, enjoy the resource, but be willing to go home empty to benefit the animals you say you love.

Yeah, not very diplomatic but he ain't wrong. This is something FWP needs to address. I would love to see all B tags be available for whitetails only, and a 4 point antler restriction on mulies.

I'm of the opinion that whitetails are for meat, so blast away at those, but we need to protect our mulies.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

 

[WCB]

Anybody on this thread that thinks NRs are the problem and that residents are eating tags due to wanting a mature deer at any different rate than NRs is completely full of sh!t. I have family, friends, and general acquaintances that are MT residents and some of them still can't lay off a immature 3pt opening weekend let alone wait all season and it cost what $20.

MT should have a ton of Whitetail only tags and fewer "any buck" tags for NRs IMO. Hunting during the rut or not wouldn't matter as much with the ability for less guys to kill Mule Deer. Same with resident tags make them choose Whitetail or Mule Deer or maybe give the option for a $50 tag for any antlered deer. There is also ZERO reason for Mule Deer doe tags to be given away. And this is just my opinion but Mule Deer does are like shooting Bighorn Ewes and that is the same as shooting a pet goat I don't get it.

For any NR to say that since the tag cost so much guys aren't going to go home empty handed is also complete B.S. whether the tag is $200 or $800 the guy that can't hold off a 2yr old forky isn't changing his habits because of money. I ate two NR tags last fall and spent the typical travel and lodging costs...it is a choice independent of cost. Again...look at the MAJORITY of MT residents.

 

[OpenCountry]

Anybody on this thread that thinks NRs are the problem and that residents are eating tags due to wanting a mature deer at any different rate than NRs is completely full of sh!t. I have family, friends, and general acquaintances that are MT residents and some of them still can't lay off a immature 3pt opening weekend let alone wait all season and it cost what $20.

MT should have a ton of Whitetail only tags and fewer "any buck" tags for NRs IMO. Hunting during the rut or not wouldn't matter as much with the ability for less guys to kill Mule Deer. Same with resident tags make them choose Whitetail or Mule Deer or maybe give the option for a $50 tag for any antlered deer. There is also ZERO reason for Mule Deer doe tags to be given away. And this is just my opinion but Mule Deer does are like shooting Bighorn Ewes and that is the same as shooting a pet goat I don't get it.

For any NR to say that since the tag cost so much guys aren't going to go home empty handed is also complete B.S. whether the tag is $200 or $800 the guy that can't hold off a 2yr old forky isn't changing his habits because of money. I ate two NR tags last fall and spent the typical travel and lodging costs...it is a choice independent of cost. Again...look at the MAJORITY of MT residents.

Exactly why I included both residents and nonresidents in my statement. It’s not a one sided problem.

 

[j_volt]

I guess I am part of the "problem" as this exact photo was "laughed" at by ol 406. I welcome the criticism, even if it is in a place where members were helping each other by giving first hand experiences of the Montana rut.

Here is what I know:

• I had lots of fun with some great friends
• I will never apologize for filling a tag legally, neither should anyone else
• This buck was aged at 5.5 based on teeth. Maybe he would have blown up at 6.5
• I didn't care if he was 5.5 or 2.5. The buck/situation made me happy and I chose to fill my tag on this buck.
• While socializing/spending my Missouri dollars in Montana dive bars, every resident was extremely nice and complimented this buck. However, every buck they showed me was much smaller and appeared younger.
• Perhaps FWP and a month long rut rifle season are more to blame than NR hunters

I will likely go back to Montana in the future, and hope those with the power to make real change (i.e. FWP, not a couple NRs with unfilled tags) will look at the data here, and make the best decisions for the herd, the sport, and the state of Montana.

 

[Deucebump]

View attachment 509671

I guess I am part of the "problem" as this exact photo was "laughed" at by ol 406. I welcome the criticism, even if it is in a place where members were helping each other by giving first hand experiences of the Montana rut.

Here is what I know:

• I had lots of fun with some great friends
• I will never apologize for filling a tag legally, neither should anyone else
• This buck was aged at 5.5 based on teeth. Maybe he would have blown up at 6.5
• I didn't care if he was 5.5 or 2.5. The buck/situation made me happy and I chose to fill my tag on this buck.
• While socializing/spending my Missouri dollars in Montana dive bars, every resident was extremely nice and complimented this buck. However, every buck they showed me was much smaller and appeared younger.
• Perhaps FWP and a month long rut rifle season are more to blame than NR hunters

I will likely go back to Montana in the future, and hope those with the power to make real change (i.e. FWP, not a couple NRs with unfilled tags) will look at the data here, and make the best decisions for the herd, the sport, and the state of Montana.

I could not have said this any better myself. Ill admit I did not age my deer, but am confident it is 3.5 minimum possibly older with poor genetics on the backs. I had the exact same type of experiences j_volt had. I go to MT basically every other year and have had a great time every time and filled all of my tags with bigger bucks than this years that was posted (and also laughed at by ol 406). If legally filling a tag on a respectable 3yr old is the problem, I guess Im happy to be part of the problem. Im going to start a new thread with this subject to get it where it belongs and hope all who have commented will come join the conversation and continue it. I also welcome the critisim, and Im not “woke” and butthurt over somebody upset that I killed a deer I was happy with.

 

[hobbes]

Washington group that killed 80 mule deer does???

I'm going to have to cry BS on that. I'd have to see that to believe it.


The problem with 406s posts is where and how he chose to do it. We all know that MT needs to make some changes. Send those comments to FWP and the commission. You aren't getting anywhere on here by calling out someone's decision to kill a buck. Start your own thread about Montana MD instead of immediately calling out someone that posts a photo of a buck they've killed. That's a jackass move and thinking so has nothing to do with being a snowflake.

There's nothing better than a smart ass that walks up to a happy hunter and says "Why did you shoot that buck?".

 

[BDWMT]

The problem isn’t resident or nonresident hunters following regulations. The problem is the MT FWP commission that continues to issue regulations from decades ago regarding mule deer management. How many on here complaining have wrote to the commission?? Almost the entire state of MT has a general harvest on mule deer for 3.5 months including pre, peak and post rut. This is devastating for the public land hunter but a huge money maker for the outfitters and private property owners that lease to outfitters. The money talks and it’s the public land hunter that suffers. I don’t know what the solution is but I don’t see very many other states with over the counter rifle mule rut hunts. My emails to the FWP request that the general mule deer season ends the first week of November.