Montana Rifle Company Junction 308Win Field Evaluation

[clperry]

Haha just wanting to understand what you saw that brought that conclusion.




“Speed” is a poor metric. A normal shooter shooting .25 second splits with a pistol is probably wildly and dangerously out of control, and they might as well be hitting the trigger with a sledgehammer. For a USPSA GM .25 second splits is slow enough that they are bored with it.

It’s “trigger control”- not “trigger press” or trigger “squeeze”.

“Smooth and constant pressure to the rear until the trigger breaks at 90°”, can be achieved in 10 seconds from start to finish, or in 0.1 seconds from start to finish. Obviously 0.1 second requires a completely different level of skill and control than 10 seconds.

The shot in the video was not a “command” fire. The trigger press was compressed to around 0.5 seconds from start to finish. From that position, a “command” fire on the trigger making it fire “now!” would show a general up and right movement of the reticle as the shot broke- that is not present.

Cool. This is what I was wanting to know. I imagine a command fire has its place and needs to be done at an extremely high level to be effective. But if proper control can be achieved at that level of speed, then I just need to keep practicing.

 

[TxxAgg]

clperry, you're a good sport and have the right attitude. I was kinda wondering the same. Just shows how much I still have to learn.

 

[NSI]

Cool. This is what I was wanting to know. I imagine a command fire has its place and needs to be done at an extremely high level to be effective. But if proper control can be achieved at that level of speed, then I just need to keep practicing.

There is an extreme version of this duality in the archery world because of a number of issues (muscle tension, fatigue, severity of explosion, lack of danger space, etc). Almost every archer chases a true surprise break, the result of constant increasing pressure in a straight line back from the firing hand elbow. They intimately understand the consequences of “punching the trigger.” But there’s still a vanishingly small number of fine competition archers willing to use their pure back tension or hinge releases while hunting.

The argument is that if an animal walks 7 yards in front of them and they “need” to punch the trigger (putting aside the fact that no Westerner really “needs” to shoot any animal in 2024), doing so with a thumb button will be less damaging to the outcome than doing so with a hinge. The real answer is to practice gas pedal control so that you can move both imperceptibly slow and quite rapidly through the increase in tension that results in an arrow loosing with any release. I hold the same belief for precision/hunting rifle trigger presses. Half a second is plenty of time to breathe out and increase pressure on the trigger blade.

There’s a fundamentally different circuit in my brain when I pick up a short AR or pistol for competitions like USPSA that prize speed and moderate accuracy over precision. That circuit focuses on things like grip, lack of anticipation, return of sights to target, etc. There is plenty of crossover, but of course when I am shooting .15 splits I’m not consciously thinking my way through a trigger press that increases in pressure. I’m commanding the gun to fire. In contrast, when there are hostage targets at 25 yards I roll back my gas pedal and engage that neural circuit from precision rifle and archery again. With enough gas pedal practice this becomes less binary and more of a spectrum. I do this by interspersing close and near targets in a practice stage and scoring by hit factor. Hope this helps.

-J

 

[clperry]

There is an extreme version of this duality in the archery world because of a number of issues (muscle tension, fatigue, severity of explosion, lack of danger space, etc). Almost every archer chases a true surprise break, the result of constant increasing pressure in a straight line back from the firing hand elbow. They intimately understand the consequences of “punching the trigger.” But there’s still a vanishingly small number of fine competition archers willing to use their pure back tension or hinge releases while hunting.

The argument is that if an animal walks 7 yards in front of them and they “need” to punch the trigger (putting aside the fact that no Westerner really “needs” to shoot any animal in 2024), doing so with a thumb button will be less damaging to the outcome than doing so with a hinge. The real answer is to practice gas pedal control so that you can move both imperceptibly slow and quite rapidly through the increase in tension that results in an arrow loosing with any release. I hold the same belief for precision/hunting rifle trigger presses. Half a second is plenty of time to breathe out and increase pressure on the trigger blade.

There’s a fundamentally different circuit in my brain when I pick up a short AR or pistol for competitions like USPSA that prize speed and moderate accuracy over precision. That circuit focuses on things like grip, lack of anticipation, return of sights to target, etc. There is plenty of crossover, but of course when I am shooting .15 splits I’m not consciously thinking my way through a trigger press that increases in pressure. I’m commanding the gun to fire. In contrast, when there are hostage targets at 25 yards I roll back my gas pedal and engage that neural circuit from precision rifle and archery again. With enough gas pedal practice this becomes less binary and more of a spectrum. I do this by interspersing close and near targets in a practice stage and scoring by hit factor. Hope this helps.

-J

I understand the concepts, I just didn’t give form enough credit. Your post does provide context though. I’m very familiar with the concept in archery, and you’re right, it’s way more pronounced. I too leave my back tension at home in favor of my thumb release when hunting. I guess my main point in it all is that you don’t always have the opportunity to have a rock steady rest or a boat load of time. It’s important to develop the skills to make shots quickly if you want to maximize shot opportunities on game. Being able to command fire effectively is a useful tool.

 

[Castle Rock]

I guess I missed it, did the 308 barrel wear out, or did you just get bored with it?

 

[Formidilosus]

I guess I missed it, did the 308 barrel wear out, or did you just get bored with it?

Nope, not wore out. Swapped to a 6cm for hunting season and to see how the “prefit” ability of the action was. The 308 barrel will go back on in January.

 

[clperry]

clperry, you're a good sport and have the right attitude. I was kinda wondering the same. Just shows how much I still have to learn.

It’s all a process. Just want to get better.


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