Montana Rifle Company Junction 308Win Field Evaluation

[Formidilosus]

Form I see you posting in all of the M70 threads and I appreciate it. There aren't many people in this day and age of carbon fiber and chassis "customs" who appreciate a CRF action.

I’ve been shooting M70’s since I was 14. Classic 90’s CRF and PF, and have shot multiple barrels out.

I guess I have an old soul. I'm not old, probably one of those flat brimmed hat wearing people that someone else mentioned. However, I'm drawn to the M70 for some reason. I think Carlos Hathcock might be the coolest dude who ever lived. If you pick up a nice M70, there's just a classy feel to it that's hard to put into words.

I’m not old either, and yes- M70’s, week worked over Mausers, etc., all feel different than modern rifles.

I'm glad you're testing this rifle and I'm glad you appreciate the merits of a CRF action. I feel like there aren't many people left who even know what it is and that's sad. I hope to see a revival and new acceptance of CRF actions and this is a step in the right direction.

most of the sub 40yo people I meet don’t really know what a proper M70 or any CRF is. Truthfully the older generation has some blame for that- M70’s built as shooters aren’t very common. There aren’t too many modern stocks for them, nor is detachable mags really an option for most.

The M70 or MRC needs to change. An MRC with modern stock design, shorter threaded barrel, and DBM would be a great rifle.

I think there are people out there who would happily pay an extra $500+ to have a really nice CRF and I'm one of them.

I’m one of them. Well, it isn’t necessarily due to CRF. Having an American action/rifle that is actually reliable is missing.

 

[SDHNTR]

I’ve been shooting M70’s since I was 14. Classic 90’s CRF and PF, and have shot multiple barrels out.




I’m not old either, and yes- M70’s, week worked over Mausers, etc., all feel different than modern rifles.





most of the sub 40yo people I meet don’t really know what a proper M70 or any CRF is. Truthfully the older generation has some blame for that- M70’s built as shooters aren’t very common. There aren’t too many modern stocks for them, nor is detachable mags really an option for most.

The M70 or MRC needs to change. An MRC with modern stock design, shorter threaded barrel, and DBM would be a great rifle.





I’m one of them. Well, it isn’t necessarily due to CRF. Having an American action/rifle that is actually reliable is missing.

I’ve got a pile of worked over Classics, some with new barrels, a couple with originals that shoot well. They all shoot and function amazingly well and just feel right in the hands. Watching that claw work is confidence inspiring. When I do my next brown bear hunt, either my .375HH or .338WM will be along for the ride. I wouldn’t even begin to consider any PF guns.

 

[Southernfried]

I’ve got a pile of worked over Classics, some with new barrels, a couple with originals that shoot well. They all shoot and function amazingly well and just feel right in the hands. Watching that claw work is confidence inspiring. When I do my next brown bear hunt, either my .375HH or .338WM will be along for the ride. I wouldn’t even begin to consider any PF guns.

I’ve been shooting M70’s since I was 14. Classic 90’s CRF and PF, and have shot multiple barrels out.




I’m not old either, and yes- M70’s, week worked over Mausers, etc., all feel different than modern rifles.





most of the sub 40yo people I meet don’t really know what a proper M70 or any CRF is. Truthfully the older generation has some blame for that- M70’s built as shooters aren’t very common. There aren’t too many modern stocks for them, nor is detachable mags really an option for most.

The M70 or MRC needs to change. An MRC with modern stock design, shorter threaded barrel, and DBM would be a great rifle.





I’m one of them. Well, it isn’t necessarily due to CRF. Having an American action/rifle that is actually reliable is missing.

@Formidilosus I must admit, I will be 60 in a couple of years, and due to all the readings, magazine articles etc (yes before the internet we had magazines and the library lol) I have mostly only owned Rem 700's over the years, in part because it was the thing to do and largely even, due to all the parts that are in the market back then, and even today. I never ever gave a CRF a chance. Maybe its now that I have a son who just gave us our first grandson 2 years ago, and another one will be here in Oct (Lord willing) I have gave thought of what I want to pass down to my son and grand sons, and it seems the CRF models are the more "eloquent" rifle to pass down. I have my Grandpa's 1952 Browning Sweet 16 that I would take nothing for, so I guess Im looking for something they will cherish lol My question, with all the knowledge here on the Rok, and heavy favoritism to the Tikka brand, why isnt the CRF model ( when it seems has more advantages than a PF model) not more prevalent? Just trying to learn more in my old age . It would appear to me, (knowing nothing) the Tikka would be the easy button? But I still want them to have something that they can pass down to their kids one day and it wont be lost in time before then. What models of a CRF are out there that I can be looking for in the used or pawn shop/gun store market, since, like you said, there really are not a whole lot of options in todays "new" market? Thanks for your time and I hope I didnt thread jack the thread, just trying to learn. Thanks everyone.

 

[SloppyJ]

I think I'm definitely in the minority here but I prefer the bdl setup on my hunting rifles. I like not getting my hand hung up on a mag and they just seem more reliable to me. I don't have a problem with flush DBMs. My last gun I used a UM bottom metal and mag on and it's great too but it's starting to get to my limit on how far things stick out of the bottom.

My BDLs function flawlessly out of the box where there's a lot of tuning and tweaking that I've had to do on dbms. Reality is I'm probably not taking more than one shot where I hunt in the thick woods so having more than 3 or 4 rounds is really of no benefit that I've found to this point in my life.

These new montanas, do they come in a BDL option? If I had my rathers, a m5 bdl setup would be preferred just in case.

 

[Nhenry]

Taped the box just in case-

What problem can arise from having it un-taped?

 

[prm]

Well, I am starting to get up there in age. I like walnut. Almost to the point of hunting exclusively with a walnut stocked rifle. Sentimental reasons in addition to feel, but I still prefer it. About the only thing that will sway me now is something like a Rokstok with DBM for my 84M. Interested in how this rifle passes the test of time.

 

[NDGuy]

Just popping in to say @Formidilosus is badass and I have learned more about shooting from him than most have forgotten about.

Good stuff and thanks for doing what you do in the forum!

 

[Imac45acp]

Just popping in to say that we'll be exploring dbm in the future, but like SloppyJ said they take some work to get right. Sticking with the bdl floor plate for the moment, but there's always more stuff in the works.

I'm pretty much concentrating on the engineering/ production hand off right now and back in a more active QC role until we're happy and confident with the existing products rolling out the doors. The rifle sent to Form still kinda stings with embarrassment...

I also don't want to clog this up with manufacturer comments, so feel free to pm me with any comments or questions.

-Ian

Btw- I'm at the Mile High Show in Denver this weekend if anyone wants to swing by and finger some guns lol

 

[SDHNTR]

Just popping in to say that we'll be exploring dbm in the future, but like SloppyJ said they take some work to get right. Sticking with the bdl floor plate for the moment, but there's always more stuff in the works.

I'm pretty much concentrating on the engineering/ production hand off right now and back in a more active QC role until we're happy and confident with the existing products rolling out the doors. The rifle sent to Form still kinda stings with embarrassment...

I also don't want to clog this up with manufacturer comments, so feel free to pm me with any comments or questions.

-Ian

Btw- I'm at the Mile High Show in Denver this weekend if anyone wants to swing by and finger some guns lol

You’ve got guts my friend!

From a garage engineering standpoint, you’ve got an easy fix. Drill through the tang. That way a few thou difference in screw length isn’t going to stress the receiver. Of course, all while still keeping the screw from standing proud into the bolt thrust. And then take a little more care with the bedding. That might require an extra step to put it back on the mill after bedding to clean up excess and grind it back out of the barrel channel.

You’re obviously producing straight and true actions and good barrels. You’ve got the hard part done. Good looking rifle too!

Thanks for having the stones to send a rifle in. This makes for better options for us all!

 

[Imac45acp]

You’ve got guts my friend!

From a garage engineering standpoint, you’ve got an easy fix. Drill through the tang. That way a few thou difference in screw length isn’t going to stress the receiver. Of course, all while still keeping the screw from standing proud into the bolt thrust. And then take a little more care with the bedding. That might require an extra step to put it back on the mill after bedding to clean up excess and grind it back out of the barrel channel.

You’re obviously producing straight and true actions and good barrels. You’ve got the hard part done. Good looking rifle too!

Thanks for having the stones to send a rifle in. This makes for better options for us all!

No need to drill all the way though the tang, the screw just had to be properly sized to provide proper pinch. I've got .250" of thread engagement already, just working with a mix of old inventory and new production stocks. The old inventory stock pinch point varied .050" from stock to stock shorter than the new production that was made to my spec.

It was an oversight on my part that shouldn't have slipped though.

 

[Castle Rock]

Yes that is an easy fix, ideally using a sleeve in the stock, like the original Mauser did
Whatever you do don’t cheapen the rifle by drilling it through

 

[Trogon]

Just popping in to say that we'll be exploring dbm in the future, but like SloppyJ said they take some work to get right. Sticking with the bdl floor plate for the moment, but there's always more stuff in the works.

Would love to see a dbm option!

 

[SDHNTR]

Yes that is an easy fix, ideally using a sleeve in the stock, like the original Mauser did
Whatever you do don’t cheapen the rifle by drilling it through

How would drilling it through, like most rifles, cheapen it?

 

[Billy Goat]

How would drilling it through, like most rifles, cheapen it?

Aesthetics, I'd rather not look at the top of a bolt but a smooth receiver finish.

No real difference in function, except might allow more moisture in, but I'd say that's pretty insignificant.


I can understand it on cheap large production guns, and it's not the end of the world, but it's ugly.

 

[Peregrine]

Rear action screw had to have the first thread and a half reduced, and it was bottoming out.
View attachment 687336


Then checked bedding for movement, there was quite a bit,
View attachment 687339




The forward barrel pad was removed in hopes that was the cause-
View attachment 687337

View attachment 687338



Unfortunately it may have reduced the movement, but did not fix it. UM did the work, and we will shoot it tomorrow before going any further with it.



UPDATE MARCH 19th:


The bedding and/or screw seemed to be the issue.

Federal Gold Medal 168gr SMK- 1.28 MOA for ten shots
View attachment 689466



UM loaded 176gr A-Tip, 1.04 MOA for ten shots-
View attachment 689467





So now that the rifle shoots decent, it gets to ride upfront and the real shooting begins.
View attachment 689468



Next will be back to UM to get the barrel cut to 18” and threaded.





UPDATE: March 21


Spoke with MRC’s engineer for a bit, it was a good conversation. They want total transparency- good or bad, and are legitimately not happy the rifle left as it did. Most of the issues are relatively simple to correct, and ones they/you wouldn’t catch until it’s pointed out.
The rear action screw issue was already being addressed before we spoke, the rest of the smaller issues are all a priority- they stopped a shipment of rifles to ensure that the issues are not present on them, or that they are corrected if they are.

I don’t say this lightly, but so far (300’ish rounds) the foundation of the MRC is legit- feeding, firing, extracting, and ejecting are all spot on- it is a true CRF that is timed correctly (most aren’t). Now that the rifle is performing well in precision, it’s going to get used heavily.


Questions that have come up quite a bit:

1). DBM options- yes. They are looking at it/working on it. No solid timeline.

2). Different stocks- most likely.

Really nice review. Thanks for the details.

 

[HighUintas]

How would drilling it through, like most rifles, cheapen it?

There's a difference between high quality/functional and high quality/functional/aesthetic. For example, the American longrifle makers would hog out the inlet in the stock for the lock and barrel and while functional, the British would meticulously inlet the lock and barrel which shows much higher attention to detail and aesthetic standards. Did that make much difference in the function? Not in shooting, but leaving more wood in the lock inlet created a stronger stock.

I'd rather have one that is beautiful and shoots well even if it costs a little more. If Tikka would sell a rifle that has a nice walnut stock with less drop at heel, more closed grip, with a metal trigger guard and bolt shroud that matches the rest of the metal, I'd definitely go for that.

 

[SDHNTR]

There's a difference between high quality/functional and high quality/functional/aesthetic. For example, the American longrifle makers would hog out the inlet in the stock for the lock and barrel and while functional, the British would meticulously inlet the lock and barrel which shows much higher attention to detail and aesthetic standards. Did that make much difference in the function? Not in shooting, but leaving more wood in the lock inlet created a stronger stock.

I'd rather have one that is beautiful and shoots well even if it costs a little more. If Tikka would sell a rifle that has a nice walnut stock with less drop at heel, more closed grip, with a metal trigger guard and bolt shroud that matches the rest of the metal, I'd definitely go for that.

I do not disagree. I don’t own a single Tikka. I just can’t do it. At the same time I also don’t see how a hole through the tang of a rifle diminishes beauty, or anything else for that matter. Seems to me it would allow for that .001-2” variance that will naturally occur with hardware, not to mention the additional tolerance stack of bottom metal and stock inletting. I’ve got a couple beautiful M70’s and I’ve never once given the hole in the tang a negative thought.

 

[HighUintas]

I do not disagree. I don’t own a single Tikka. I just can’t do it. At the same time I also don’t see how a hole through the tang of a rifle diminishes beauty, or anything else for that matter. Seems to me it would allow for that .001-2” variance that will naturally occur with hardware, not to mention the additional tolerance stack of bottom, metal and stock inletting. I’ve got a couple beautiful M70’s and I’ve never once given the hole in the tang a negative thought.

We are nowadays far less concerned with the artful side of craftsmanship. That whole thing started going away with the half stock Hawken rifles. And yes that's a pretty minute detail to be concerned with, but when looking at all the small details such as that they contribute to the whole rifle. Tapping a blind hole like that and doing it consistently and with high quality says something about the craftsmanship. Going back to the English rifle builders again, they'd have the lock mounted using a blind tapped hole so the lock bolt isn't visible. Hiding the innerworkings/connections of the rifle to make it seamless yet still a highly functional or superior rifle is pretty awesome.

In the end, I wouldn't really care. All my rifles are used as a tool and I don't care too much about their appearance. Even if I had a deluxe rifle, it'd get beat up through use.

 

[SDHNTR]

Ultimately, there’s a difference between the $2000 craftsmanship we are talking about here and a $20,000 (or more) English double gun.

 

[Formidilosus]

Update to post #5.


Barrel of as chopped to 18” and threaded. Much better balance and feel.




Also shoots 1/4 MOA all day long, when I do my part…..