Montana preference points expiration

[Scoot]

OK, I've read everything above, but I'm a little confused. Am I right in the following statements: If I have a point, I need to apply for a license the following year to keep that point. But, if I draw the general license and not the permit, returning the general license will result in me losing my pref points. Is all that correct?

 

[KHNC]

Montana system sucks. Im forfeiting my two PP's this year and i wont ever be buying any again. its off my list for the west nowadays.

 

[OregonSteeler]

Montana system sucks. Im forfeiting my two PP's this year and i wont ever be buying any again. its off my list for the west nowadays.

Also stinks if you want to hunt different species, different years. I'd like to hunt deer this year, but if I pull the tag I'm out of my preference point for elk next year.

 

[DanimalW]

You should read it yourself - Montana HB 637 - preference point section becomes effective March 1, 2022, not the versions quoted above.

Beginning in 2022, PP are $100 (they were $50).
Beginning in 2022, the max number of PP allowed is 3.
Beginning in 2022, you lose your PP if you fail to apply in consecutive years. To me, that means that if you skip a year, you have failed to apply in consecutive years and you lose your PP. Another nice money maker for MT.

You have a 2021 PP. If you only buy a PP in 2022 (new dates - July 1 - December 31), you would think you have 2 PP going in to 2023. HOWEVER, you would have failed to apply for a license in consecutive years (2021, 2022). Is MT going to "look back" prior to 2022 or begin at 2022? It is far from clear to me and a call to MT FWP Licensing is probably your best bet. They have always been very helpful when I called them - good luck!

Thanks for the update. Just when you think you have it all figured out, they throw you a curveball.

 

[dirtytough]

The MT point/draw system already sucked. It's hard to imagine they could of made it worse. But sure enough they were able to.

 

[Scoot]

Between idiotic point schemes like those described above and ball licking politicians giving outfitters and landowners anything they want, Montana has gone from a great state for hunting out West to a complete and total joke. It's absolutely criminal what these scumbags have done.

 

[Erict]

This sure make it hard to plan anything. Can’t plan on drawing every year. Can’t build points to draw in the year you want to go. Don’t like it.

Yes, it is hard to plan and yes, few if any like this system and it's only got worse.

BONUS points may be purchased every year without applying for a license and are not "deleted" if you skip year(s).

PREFERENCE points may be purchased July 1-Dec 31 without applying for a license to "build points" for the following year. You MUST apply the following year or you will "loose accumulated preference points". So, if you were hoping to hunt in 2023 then you can buy PP this year, buy another next year at the time of license application and go in to the license draw with 2 PP.

 

[voltage]

Here is a hypothetical situation that seems unclear.

Apply in 2022 with 0, unsuccessful in draw, and buy a point after the draw.
Do you then have to apply in 2023 or are you good with sitting out because you applied the year before?
It sounds like you lose the point.

I like that they are making people apply, but planning is nice especially when the Colorado app/results window overlaps Montana.

 

[Steve O]

Sadly I bought a point last year. Amd don’t want to hunt in Montana this fall.

 

[Erict]

OK, I've read everything above, but I'm a little confused. Am I right in the following statements: If I have a point, I need to apply for a license the following year to keep that point. But, if I draw the general license and not the permit, returning the general license will result in me losing my pref points. Is all that correct?

There are three conditions that wipe out your PP, one is if you draw a general license. The law does not mention what happens to those who draw a license but do not draw a LE permit and request a refund. I would call Montana F&G and ask them directly about this. Good luck.

 

[Erict]

Here is a hypothetical situation that seems unclear.

Apply in 2022 with 0, unsuccessful in draw, and buy a point after the draw.
Do you then have to apply in 2023 or are you good with sitting out because you applied the year before?
It sounds like you lose the point.

I like that they are making people apply, but planning is nice especially when the Colorado app/results window overlaps Montana.

Once you have a PP you must "apply (for a general combo license) in consecutive years" or your "accumulated" PP will be reset/deleted/wiped out/thanks for the donation.

Instead of saying "you lose the point", I think of it more like "they take away your point and keep your $100"

 

[voltage]

There’s an argument to stay at 0 points and roll the dice. As I am sure many of you know, 0 points was better than 1 point in 2021. That trend may change, but you won’t be stuck sending out flaming Benjamin’s for Montana to throw in the general fund.

 

[Scoot]

There are three conditions that wipe out your PP, one is if you draw a general license. The law does not mention what happens to those who draw a license but do not draw a LE permit and request a refund. I would call Montana F&G and ask them directly about this. Good luck.

Thanks for the response I appreciate it. I will call and make sure I understand yeah. If I apply to Montana this year, or ever again for that matter. You said if you draw a general license it wipes out your PP. You also said you weren't sure what happens when you draw general license but do not draw the permit. In that 2nd scenario you drew a general license so I assume that means you lose your PP, unless there are caveats to the 1st statement that you made. Regardless I will call and try to get clarity on the matter.

 

[Erict]

... You said if you draw a general license it wipes out your PP. You also said you weren't sure what happens when you draw general license but do not draw the permit. In that 2nd scenario you drew a general license so I assume that means you lose your PP, unless there are caveats to the 1st statement that you made....

Here is the exact wording of HB 637 that applies and which you can quote when calling them. When they rewrite the law they underline the new sections and cross out the old sections. (4)(a)(i-iii) are the three ways they can delete PP:

(3) An applicant may:

(a) purchase only one preference point per license year except a nonresident hunting with an outfitter
licensed pursuant to Title 37, chapter 47, part 3, and providing the documentation required in subsection (8), may purchase two preference points per license year. No applicant may accumulate more than three preference points total.; and

(b) purchase a preference point without applying for a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license. An applicant
not applying for a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license may purchase a preference point only between July 1 and September 30 December 31 of that license year. The department shall delete an applicant's accumulated preference points if the applicant does not apply for a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license for 3 consecutive years.

(4) (a) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), the department may not delete an applicant's accumulated preference points unless the applicant obtains the license applied for, in which case the The department shall delete the an applicant's accumulated preference points if the applicant:

(i) obtains a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license; or
(ii) does not apply for a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license in consecutive years.
(b) If an applicant is unsuccessful in drawing a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license, the department shall
allow the applicant to keep and apply preference points to subsequent drawings if done in consecutive years.

 

[fatlander]

Thanks for the response I appreciate it. I will call and make sure I understand yeah. If I apply to Montana this year, or ever again for that matter. You said if you draw a general license it wipes out your PP. You also said you weren't sure what happens when you draw general license but do not draw the permit. In that 2nd scenario you drew a general license so I assume that means you lose your PP, unless there are caveats to the 1st statement that you made. Regardless I will call and try to get clarity on the matter.

You have to draw a general tag before you are even put in the pool that can draw a limited entry tag.

At the time of application you were able to select 2 options: retain general tag if unsuccessful in limited entry, or forfeit general tag if unsuccessful.

Either way, you’re losing the general preference points.


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[Scoot]

Thank you guys I appreciate it again. I will definitely call and make sure I understand fully, but I'm pretty sure I get it now. It's really really hard to believe it but Montana has managed to F up their regulations and treatment of non residents even further.

 

[sneaky]

Outfitters and landowners in MT are happy though, that's all that matters.

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[CamoPirate]

So does this mean the max points you can now accumulate is 3? Or rather, 3+1 bonus point?

(a) purchase only one preference point per license year except a nonresident hunting with an outfitter
licensed pursuant to Title 37, chapter 47, part 3, and providing the documentation required in subsection (8), may purchase two preference points per license year. No applicant may accumulate more than three preference points total.; and

 

[fatlander]

So does this mean the max points you can now accumulate is 3? Or rather, 3+1 bonus point?

(a) purchase only one preference point per license year except a nonresident hunting with an outfitter
licensed pursuant to Title 37, chapter 47, part 3, and providing the documentation required in subsection (8), may purchase two preference points per license year. No applicant may accumulate more than three preference points total.; and

Max points will be a moving target. The only thing that ever made max preference points 3 was the previous language about the time you had to apply relative to when you started accumulating points.

Eventually point creep will push it out past 3.


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[Riplip]

Here is a hypothetical situation that seems unclear.

Apply in 2022 with 0, unsuccessful in draw, and buy a point after the draw.
Do you then have to apply in 2023 or are you good with sitting out because you applied the year before?
It sounds like you lose the point.

I like that they are making people apply, but planning is nice especially when the Colorado app/results window overlaps Montana.

Clarification - If you apply this year and don't elect to buy a preference point at time of applicaiton, you cannot buy a preference point later this summer. Either way if you buy a PP in 2022 you will have to apply in 2023 or lose any accumulated preference points.