Montana Mule Deer - First timer

[elkhunter505]

Native New Mexican here. Moved to MT for school. I spent basically 1 day scouting for deer this last year. That day was an archery hunt for elk where I just happened to find a solid mature buck with a group of does and other small bucks like the 2nd week of October. Went in there opening morning looking for the elk and ended up killing the buck about 2 hours after first lite when I ran into him in almost the exact same spot. Not a huge buck but definitely a mature deer. We were a considerable ways in an extremely popular spot where we were actually behind people when we got set up. Maybe my deer compass is off and maybe I just got stupid lucky but the amount of deer that I see almost anywhere I go is insane in comparison to almost any hunt I’ve been on in NM. I’ve also been told I’m hunting areas where the deer population is much lower than other parts of the state. I don’t have a reference point though so I would definitely defer. With the opportunity to shoot whitetail does, I won’t be pulling the trigger on a mule deer buck unless he’s mature since I can get meat in other ways. Similarly, if I kill an elk during archery season, that allows me to search for big bucks since my freezer is full. Particularly for residents, I don’t understand shooting a forky (if they’re invested in having bigger deer) when there are whitetail doe tags in surplus many places.

 

[bullisticks]

Looking at applying for a general tag for mule deer with some friends coming from the midwest this fall. Not trophy hunting but looking for opportunity, is it better to hunt the east or west side of Montana. Does elevation factor much in to where they hang out? Just trying to get an idea of logistics and where we should think about if I'm only able to e-scout. TIA.

Seems like 3/4 of the non resident hunter's hit eastern Montana really hard, I went out this year and saw 0 local plates anytime I went hunting. Western Montana is a lot harder to hunt but there's nothing like big timber bucks, especially if you want to have a decent and challenging pack out.

 

[AHayes111]

Seems like 3/4 of the non resident hunter's hit eastern Montana really hard, I went out this year and saw 0 local plates anytime I went hunting. Western Montana is a lot harder to hunt but there's nothing like big timber bucks, especially if you want to have a decent and challenging pack out.

yup, NR kill more bucks in regions 6 and 7 than residents do.

 

[Cheesehead]

Looking at applying for a general tag for mule deer with some friends coming from the midwest this fall. Not trophy hunting but looking for opportunity, is it better to hunt the east or west side of Montana. Does elevation factor much in to where they hang out? Just trying to get an idea of logistics and where we should think about if I'm only able to e-scout. TIA.

Rokslide and Hunttalk are great places to hear people tell you how horrible eastern
Montana deer hunting is. Was in your shoes coming from the Midwest. Had an elk/deer combo a couple years ago. Struck out on elk in September, came back for deer in the East in November. Threw a dart at the map. Three days to hunt, saw probably 15 bucks. Nothing big, but mostly 1.5-2.5 year old crab claw 4s, 3x3 or 3x4 muleys and decent 8 point whitetails.
Compared to combat hunting in the Midwest, where I’ve had ten people walk past my stand on an opening morning and some post right next to me for the chance at a nocturnal brush dwelling crackhead whitetail, it was an absolute blast with deer just standing out in the open. Shot a last day freezer filler because I like wild game
Sounds like the numbers are down quite a bit since then but go give it hell.
I’ll post a few representative pics.
Hope that helps

 

[Cheesehead]

Go have fun and give it hell
Montanans like to poorly manage their deer herds and then preach how hunting is conservation so let’s help them conserve it harder!

 

[AHayes111]

Rokslide and Hunttalk are great places to hear people tell you how horrible eastern
Montana deer hunting is. Was in your shoes coming from the Midwest. Had an elk/deer combo a couple years ago. Struck out on elk in September, came back for deer in the East in November. Threw a dart at the map. Three days to hunt, saw probably 15 bucks. Nothing big, but mostly 1.5-2.5 year old crab claw 4s, 3x3 or 3x4 muleys and decent 8 point whitetails.
Compared to combat hunting in the Midwest, where I’ve had ten people walk past my stand on an opening morning and some post right next to me for the chance at a nocturnal brush dwelling crackhead whitetail, it was an absolute blast with deer just standing out in the open. Shot a last day freezer filler because I like wild game
Sounds like the numbers are down quite a bit since then but go give it hell.
I’ll post a few representative pics.
Hope that helps

This post illustrates why eastern Montana is doomed under current management.

 

[Cheesehead]

This post illustrates why eastern Montana is doomed under current management.

Fully agree. That’s why we’ve gotta help them conserve it while they let us!

 

[MT-nuffgun]

Yeah, a lot of good ideas thrown around to make it better. My favorite one is making some regions permit areas. I would be fine if I had the same odds of drawing a permit for deer in my home region as I do an antelope every year. And just the same as elk, nonresidents get up to 10% of the permits, and if a western resident draws a permit in the east, that is the ONLY region he can hunt during deer season. All sounds fair to me, but FWP loses their cash cow if something like this were to take place.

 

[manitou1]

Rokslide and Hunttalk are great places to hear people tell you how horrible eastern
Montana deer hunting is. Was in your shoes coming from the Midwest. Had an elk/deer combo a couple years ago. Struck out on elk in September, came back for deer in the East in November. Threw a dart at the map. Three days to hunt, saw probably 15 bucks. Nothing big, but mostly 1.5-2.5 year old crab claw 4s, 3x3 or 3x4 muleys and decent 8 point whitetails.
Compared to combat hunting in the Midwest, where I’ve had ten people walk past my stand on an opening morning and some post right next to me for the chance at a nocturnal brush dwelling crackhead whitetail, it was an absolute blast with deer just standing out in the open. Shot a last day freezer filler because I like wild game
Sounds like the numbers are down quite a bit since then but go give it hell.
I’ll post a few representative pics.

Shoot your “freezer fillers” back home please.

For every NR that kills their “freezer filler” out West, that is one less good buck for us to hunt later… adding up to tens if thousands of bucks. All so guys can go home with a grip and grin.

Really, if you want to fill your freezer shoot your does at home. Most Eastern and Midwest states are VERY generous with doe tags.

 

[Buglebrush]

For every NR that kills their “freezer filler” out West, that is one less good buck for us to hunt later… adding up to tens if thousands of bucks. All so guys can go home with a grip and grin.

Really, if you want to fill your freezer shoot your does at home. Most Eastern and Midwest states are VERY generous with doe tags.

I agree with this, but plenty plenty of locals sitting dinks too.

 

[Scottf270]

I agree with this, but plenty plenty of locals sitting dinks too.

It's one thing for a Montana resident to shoot a smaller deer. It's totally another for a guy to pay $900 and drive many miles to shoot an immature buck.

 

[Dirtscoots]

Can someone clarify how the youth tags work for general hunt? It’s my understanding if an adult draws then you can just purchase a youth tag. My question is with one adult drawing can you buy a tag for each kid or does it have to be 1:1 ratio? Also I’m technically my kids stepdad does that qualify ?

 

[dirtytough]

It's one thing for a Montana resident to shoot a smaller deer. It's totally another for a guy to pay $900 and drive many miles to shoot an immature buck.

How much is too much money spent to shoot an immature buck? Please let everyone know so no one over spends.

What is an immature buck? 3 years old or younger?

 

[AHayes111]

Fully agree. That’s why we’ve gotta help them conserve it while they let us!

I am not going to look down on you for taking home a freezer filler of a buck. You bought the tag, shoot what ever you want as long as it is legal.
What I have a hard time reconciling is how NR can come to SE MT and view the hunting as great, when I, who have hunted here for over 45 years hope that the past few years are the bottom of a decades long slide in mule deer hunting.
Some things I think NR need to consider when hunting mule deer in SE MT.
Mule Deer are not whitetails. Whitetails under pressure go nocturnal much faster and earlier in life than mule deer. I have seen some older mule deer go nocturnal, but they are an exception and there are few places in SE MT with enough escape cover to make going nocturnal and effective survival strategy. In the 80's and 90's I specialized in hunting these bucks in escape cover prior to the rut. Most of the time I failed but not always. Now all of those places have burned and cover is lacking. Remember with our wide open spaces even a novice with a pair of good binoculars is going to see a much higher percentage of the deer here than you will back east.
When the rut starts, going nocturnal is out the window. Mule deer and whitetails do not rut the same way. Whitetail will lock onto a hot doe and often take her to some place hidden to avoid competition from other bucks. Mule deer will lock onto a group of does and defend the group from all challengers. This makes mule deer much more vulnerable to hunters with rifles than whitetails. With today's technology this vulnerability difference is even more exaggerated. My father guided hunters in the 60's and 70's. They killed some big deer, but some of the best stories are about the big deer that they could not kill. One such buck frequented a small hill with at most a 100 feet of elevation over the surrounding land. The buck with a group of does was all but unkillable when bedded on that hill. The hunters tried several times but could never get closer than 400 yards with out getting busted. Today that is a chip shot.
Most Eastern hunters have no idea what a big mule deer looks like and peoples perception of what is a big deer has dropped considerably in recent years. A heavy buck with an upper 20's spread or buck with deep enough forks to score 180 is a entirely different animal than most of the " big deer" on most of today's hunting shows.
I under stand that the east has many times more hunters, What hunters from the east need to understand is that we in SE MT have a lot less deer. Eastern Montana can have high deer density on the river and creek bottoms and you can see lots of deer by driving the roads along those drainages. Problem is most of those river and creek bottoms are private land and unless you have connections or paying to hunt, those deer do not count. Even in the best of years the public land I hunted in the 80's and 90's had deer density of not much better than 10 deer per square mile. Now those numbers are likely half of that at best. When you take in to account the lower deer density and that our rifle hunting pressure is spread out over a season that is much longer than many Mid west seasons having to deal with one or two other hunters here could easily be the equivalent pressure of 10 or more hunters in say PA.

 

[Cheesehead]

I am not going to look down on you for taking home a freezer filler of a buck. You bought the tag, shoot what ever you want as long as it is legal.
What I have a hard time reconciling is how NR can come to SE MT and view the hunting as great, when I, who have hunted here for over 45 years hope that the past few years are the bottom of a decades long slide in mule deer hunting.
Some things I think NR need to consider when hunting mule deer in SE MT.
Mule Deer are not whitetails. Whitetails under pressure go nocturnal much faster and earlier in life than mule deer. I have seen some older mule deer go nocturnal, but they are an exception and there are few places in SE MT with enough escape cover to make going nocturnal and effective survival strategy. In the 80's and 90's I specialized in hunting these bucks in escape cover prior to the rut. Most of the time I failed but not always. Now all of those places have burned and cover is lacking. Remember with our wide open spaces even a novice with a pair of good binoculars is going to see a much higher percentage of the deer here than you will back east.
When the rut starts, going nocturnal is out the window. Mule deer and whitetails do not rut the same way. Whitetail will lock onto a hot doe and often take her to some place hidden to avoid competition from other bucks. Mule deer will lock onto a group of does and defend the group from all challengers. This makes mule deer much more vulnerable to hunters with rifles than whitetails. With today's technology this vulnerability difference is even more exaggerated. My father guided hunters in the 60's and 70's. They killed some big deer, but some of the best stories are about the big deer that they could not kill. One such buck frequented a small hill with at most a 100 feet of elevation over the surrounding land. The buck with a group of does was all but unkillable when bedded on that hill. The hunters tried several times but could never get closer than 400 yards with out getting busted. Today that is a chip shot.
Most Eastern hunters have no idea what a big mule deer looks like and peoples perception of what is a big deer has dropped considerably in recent years. A heavy buck with an upper 20's spread or buck with deep enough forks to score 180 is a entirely different animal than most of the " big deer" on most of today's hunting shows.
I under stand that the east has many times more hunters, What hunters from the east need to understand is that we in SE MT have a lot less deer. Eastern Montana can have high deer density on the river and creek bottoms and you can see lots of deer by driving the roads along those drainages. Problem is most of those river and creek bottoms are private land and unless you have connections or paying to hunt, those deer do not count. Even in the best of years the public land I hunted in the 80's and 90's had deer density of not much better than 10 deer per square mile. Now those numbers are likely half of that at best. When you take in to account the lower deer density and that our rifle hunting pressure is spread out over a season that is much longer than many Mid west seasons having to deal with one or two other hunters here could easily be the equivalent pressure of 10 or more hunters in say PA.

Appreciate the thoughtful response...candidly I've been joking around a bit above because I hate how Montana manages their deer and I'm caricaturing what their system produces but also to poke fun at locals at little bit because I think they whine a lot about something that's actually not bad, it just has a very low ceiling.

Here's the more serious answer from a midwestern hunter who actually loves mule deer and elk hunting way more than whitetails (damn timber rats)

To the Qs / points above from a couple folks:
#1 Why would a NR spend $900 and drive a long ways to shoot an immature buck
It's not (or at least doesn't have to be) ...for me, it's an incremental $200 for potentially multiple chances at game. Case in point: I can go bowhunt elk in September for ~$1100 or spend ~$1300 and bowhunt elk AND deer and then if I have time in November, come out for a long weekend and rifle hunt them in the rut. No brainer...but I agree, there's no way I'd spend the ~$800 for a deer-only tag just to hunt eastern MT.

#2 Why would the hunting seem great when it seems terrible to locals with experience (unless on private via connections or $)
What I can say is I remember crossing into the unit and immediately texting my buddy "Holy smokes, you didn't tell me how fun this would be. Lots of groups of deer visible from the road or just off it." Saw a bunch of deer, including maybe 15 bucks in a few days...great time. When I compare that to hunting in public areas in SE WI, it's night and day...lots of hunters, very few (visible) deer... Where it's similar is if you want better/easier hunting, you largely need to own / lease land or have access...there are leases/farms in midstate where you can have great hunting and see tons of deer. So the pay-to-play game is similar, but from my experience the public land vs public land is WAY better in Eastern MT than I've experienced in MO, VA, AR, IL, and WI. Others' mileage may vary.

And I understand (and appreciate) the points that you make about mule deer...they're way more sensitive as a species than WT and IMO need to be managed w/ a lot more care than MT displays. Having hunted deer in MT, WY, NV, and CO, I like the how NV and CO do it in comparison (unit by unit)...although CO's recent late dates have been a disaster.

#3 For every freezer filler deer killed by a NR for a grip and grin, it's one less future mature buck
People talk ad nauseum about this, but basically we hunt for 3 reasons: 1) the experience (camaraderie, time in nature, etc), 2) the meat, 3) the 'remaining trophy' - antlers/furs (ie, bears, etc). If I come out for a few days, support MT wildlife via license/tag dollars, and try to find a nice buck and then on the last day shoot a doe or young buck, it's because I care more about #1 and #2 on that hunt (it's very unlikely to produce something big). If others pass on a young deer because they want to let them grow (I do this a ton but if the freezer is getting empty I shoot), or they don't shoot anything but a huge deer because they mostly value #3...good for them.
When I went to Manitoba on a caribou / moose hunt, I held out for a decent caribou... it's because I wanted a good experience and a nice rack for the wall. When it was the second to last day and I tipped over the first legal bull moose I saw, it's because I wanted the meat. Different strokes...

So I say MT needs to treat mule deer way better and manage them like the iconic western species they are ... oh, and raise resident fees while you're at it

 

[AHayes111]

Raise resident fees. I wish, Sadly the only way that is going to happen is if you NR quite coming.

 

[manitou1]

I agree with this, but plenty plenty of locals sitting dinks too.

True. But at least they aren’t going to other states by the tens of thousands and shooting their 1.5 year old bucks. At least not in the numbers we see out here. Just a hunch really.

 

[MidwestElkHunter]

Looking at applying for a general tag for mule deer with some friends coming from the midwest this fall. Not trophy hunting but looking for opportunity, is it better to hunt the east or west side of Montana. Does elevation factor much in to where they hang out? Just trying to get an idea of logistics and where we should think about if I'm only able to e-scout. TIA.

Looking at applying for a general tag for mule deer with some friends coming from the midwest this fall. Not trophy hunting but looking for opportunity, is it better to hunt the east or west side of Montana. Does elevation factor much in to where they hang out? Just trying to get an idea of logistics and where we should think about if I'm only able to e-scout. TIA.

Are you set on mule deer or just hunting out west? I am from Indiana, and did several elk hunts in Montana. I was able to find elk, but never really found much as far as mule deer bucks, was always finding lots of does.

I think all of western states are struggling with mule deer populations, but I would probably go east if it were me. I would probably hunt areas that are more rolling hills terrain, rather than high altitude dark timber, but that is just my preference.

 

[MidwestElkHunter]

It's one thing for a Montana resident to shoot a smaller deer. It's totally another for a guy to pay $900 and drive many miles to shoot an immature buck.

I am trying to understand what this means? Are you saying if a nonresident already has a tag but never finds a mature buck, he shouldn't shooting anything, but would be okay for a resident on a $20 tag to shoot an immature deer?

I think the guy holding a $900 tag has more of a reason to fill that tag since they cost so much. Tag soup is easy to eat at resident prices, not so much at non-resident.

I would never go to Montana specifically for mule deer.

 

[OSU]

is there a good reason? obviously closer to the midwest but definitely willing to drive further if the experience will be better

I'd imagine because he hunts the west side