I would 100% support a pre-rut hunt over what we currently have.
Once we shorten the season we'll never get it back but we could have limited entry rut hunts. I'd like to see the general tags go to any whitetail deer and only 3 pt min but any buck for youth on mule deer. Keep the mule deer doe to B Tags where they can be managed more accurately, and folks would not be able to shoot muley dinks to "fill the freezer". Just my Opinion/Idea, not a biologist.
It would restrict the spikes, 1x2's and 2x2's from being shot. Yes, there would still be small bucks shot but at least some small bucks would make it through the season.
Antler point restrictions have never done what they are supposed to do, which is increase age class.
I don't think that's what changes herd numbers. Herd numbers decline through a combination of bad winters, drought, disease, and "over harvest". Unless we are shooting the hell out of does (sounds like some folks say we are) "over harvest" isn't what's caused the decline in numbers. ) I've not seen a lot of does killed where I've been hunting, but Ive seen a reduction in deer numbers. However, I think herd quality suffers by killing too many bucks at a young age. You eventually end up with a very small number of older class bucks that should be doing the breeding. Instead you have a pile of goofy looking 2 year old 3 points doing the breeding. I'm not sure that equates to herd health though. Does fewer big bucks mean an unhealthy herd or just not a lot of big bucks? I also don't think a herd with 25 does to one buck is a healthy herd. That also lends itself to weaker and immature bucks breeding does.
without interference. It's all about me and my desire to kill big bucks. Anyone else's desire to just fill a tag has less standing than that. Maybe I'll be generous and let a kid slide by but I'll decide what everyone else can kill. What I want is the only thing that matters. Congrats again. My apologies for helping the thread along on a different path than just congrats. If you post much about Montana mule deer, it's inevitable that it'll head down this road.
I don't think that's what changes herd numbers. Herd numbers decline through a combination of bad winters, drought, disease, and "over harvest". Unless we are shooting the hell out of does (sounds like some folks say we are) "over harvest" isn't what's caused the decline in numbers. ) I've not seen a lot of does killed where I've been hunting, but Ive seen a reduction in deer numbers. However, I think herd quality suffers by killing too many bucks at a young age. You eventually end up with a very small number of older class bucks that should be doing the breeding. Instead you have a pile of goofy looking 2 year old 3 points doing the breeding. I'm not sure that equates to herd health though. Does fewer big bucks mean an unhealthy herd or just not a lot of big bucks? I also don't think a herd with 25 does to one buck is a healthy herd. That also lends itself to weaker and immature bucks breeding does.
The QDM guys in the whitetail world use the term "herd management" a lot. My argument was few of them really cared about herd management but instead big buck production. We were just lucky that they couldn't get there without overall management of the herd.
Montana will struggle to ever change the deer set up. However, there's been some pretty big changes recommended for elk coming out of the working group recently so deer may follow. I don't mind nonresident hunters and have no real beef against them, but the reduction in folks hunting in November should be removed from them first in my opinion. Make the last two or three weeks of November a permit for rifle deer (whitetail and MD), open to archery, and the typical "up to 10% for nonresidents.". Do it statewide or the districts open will be slammed.
As far as killing young bucks goes, limiting folks to October will still kill the hell out of young bucks. People's mindset won't change. They'll see fewer big bucks in October than November. The young bucks will still be there looking stupid and they'll continue to be killed to fill a tag.
Unfortunately, it may be necessary to make some changes.
To be honest, I don't like the idea of me not hunting November. I love hunting November. What I really want is everyone else to stay home and I can keep hunting
My only real worry is herd numbers. Buck quality should be up to what the masses are willing to work towards.
Most of my post wasn't really directed at your question. A lot of it was "thinking out loud".
I think limited entry rut hunts would be great. As far as shortening the seasons maybe add a week onto the front of the season when the bucks are less vulnerable.
Are you suggesting hunting deer every year during the rut is having a negative impact?
Yes. The dumbing down of the bucks during the rut make them so vulnerable. More of the smarter, older bucks would survive improving trophy quality I would think. Its way more difficult hunting a non-rutting buck.
It might not of come across but I was being sarcastic.
