Montana exceeds 10% allocation to Nonresidents for Bighorn Sheep

[Legend]

Montana has a statute that is very clear that they will not exceed 10% of tags to Nonresidents. I downloaded the detailed data from the 2021 draw and found some interesting numbers. First you should know MT has been interpreting the statute to pool the available licenses by Region so they can get a big enough number to give 10% to Nonresidents. As such some units have 100% going to Nonresidents (like unit 421 did in 2021).

The biggest problem I see is they are including Ewe tags and Either sex tags to get a larger number and thus more either sex tags for Nonresidents. This has been going on for years. But this year it got even more interesting.

But there are also other problems, here is a little summary for Region 4:

Total sheep tags (ewe and either sex) avaliable in region 4= 51.

Total sheep tags (ewe and either sex) available in region 4 for Nonresidents to apply for= 41.

Total either sex = 21.

Non residents drew = 3 either sex tags
Non residents drew = 2 ewe tags

Another way to say it is Nonresidents drew either 14% or 12% of the sheep tags in region 4 in 2021 that they were allowed to apply for.

WTF??? Math has never been MTFWP's strong suit. Unless it favors outfitters.

I think we all need to call our commissioners and ask for an explanation. I know I will.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

Interesting math. I would have to get in and crunch the numbers statewide. Not sure if 1 Region may be over 10% while others are below?

Related… Some people liked this article, others didn’t. Bottom line is that MTFWP needs mandatory reporting criteria and they need to be able to ACCURATELY present draw data as well as actual harvest data.


17,000???
https://mtstandard.com/opinion/colu...cle_1071ff0c-3124-56c0-84ad-63f607c271e7.html

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

And to be clear… I completely agree with you that they either suck at math, try to mask it, or both.

 

[Legend]

Interesting math. I would have to get in and crunch the numbers statewide. Not sure if 1 Region may be over 10% while others are below?

Related… Some people liked this article, others didn’t. Bottom line is that MTFWP needs mandatory reporting criteria and they need to be able to ACCURATELY present draw data as well as actual harvest data.


17,000???
https://mtstandard.com/opinion/colu...cle_1071ff0c-3124-56c0-84ad-63f607c271e7.html

I saw this article. I knew that all the B tags were in addition to the 17K but I didn't know how popular it was.

 

[Tmac]

I may be missing your point or not following the numbers. But if I am, 5 out of 51 tags is under 10%. 5/51=.0980392…. Or 9.8% rounded to one decimal. So one could say NR’s drew under 10% of the total sheep tags available for that region. One could also say NR’s drew over 10% of the tags they were eligible for, while staying under the 10% cap for the regions total NR tags.

 

[Legend]

I may be missing your point or not following the numbers. But if I am, 5 out of 51 tags is under 10%. 5/51=.0980392…. Or 9.8% rounded to one decimal. So one could say NR’s drew under 10% of the total sheep tags available for that region. One could also say NR’s drew over 10% of the tags they were eligible for, while staying under the 10% cap for the regions total NR tags.

My point is that no one knows. Sure if you try hard enough you can find ways to make the math work. But the approach to make it work for the 2021 draw is not the same approach used in past years. The processes for the draw are not written and certainly not available to the public.

I guess what I really want to see happen is to have more transparency in how the draw works and as part of that I shared some data to this forum. I would bet money that almost no one in Montana realizes that fwp includes ewe tags with either sex tags in order to increase the number of tags that go to Nonresidents. As a resident this is a crazy idea.

 

[Tmac]

My point is that no one knows. Sure if you try hard enough you can find ways to make the math work. But the approach to make it work for the 2021 draw is not the same approach used in past years. The processes for the draw are not written and certainly not available to the public.

I guess what I really want to see happen is to have more transparency in how the draw works and as part of that I shared some data to this forum. I would bet money that almost no one in Montana realizes that fwp includes ewe tags with either sex tags in order to increase the number of tags that go to Nonresidents. As a resident this is a crazy idea.

I suspect $ to MT FWP is part of the calculus. My state is even more limiting to NR’s, 3% or 5% depending on species. Except sheep and goat, min of 5% and max of 10% iirc, and they list the specific units and tags available for NR’s.

 

[Bambistew]

Montana has a statute that is very clear that they will not exceed 10% of tags to Nonresidents. I downloaded the detailed data from the 2021 draw and found some interesting numbers. First you should know MT has been interpreting the statute to pool the available licenses by Region so they can get a big enough number to give 10% to Nonresidents. As such some units have 100% going to Nonresidents (like unit 421 did in 2021).

The biggest problem I see is they are including Ewe tags and Either sex tags to get a larger number and thus more either sex tags for Nonresidents. This has been going on for years. But this year it got even more interesting.

But there are also other problems, here is a little summary for Region 4:

Total sheep tags (ewe and either sex) avaliable in region 4= 51.

Total sheep tags (ewe and either sex) available in region 4 for Nonresidents to apply for= 41.

Total either sex = 21.

Non residents drew = 3 either sex tags
Non residents drew = 2 ewe tags

Another way to say it is Nonresidents drew either 14% or 12% of the sheep tags in region 4 in 2021 that they were allowed to apply for.

WTF??? Math has never been MTFWP's strong suit. Unless it favors outfitters.

I think we all need to call our commissioners and ask for an explanation. I know I will.

They are under the 10% cap for the region. This is not some new math, its been like that for decades.

NR drew 7.7% of sheep tags last year across the state, which is right in line with historic averages. It doesn't matter if its ram, either sex, or ewe tags. Cutting out half the units that NR can apply for started in the early 2000s, I believe.

I'm more curious to know why there are 3 land owner sheep tags.

 

[wind gypsy]

Seems their math is just fine in this regard.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Wait, you're saying I can still apply for a goat tag in my old stomping grounds? I always ignored the goat draw cause the one unit I want has fewer than ten tags. If it's by region my whole tag strategy needs to change..

 

[MTSasquatch]

I suspect $ to MT FWP is part of the calculus. My state is even more limiting to NR’s, 3% or 5% depending on species. Except sheep and goat, min of 5% and max of 10% iirc, and they list the specific units and tags available for NR’s.

I’m not in disagreement that more explanation of what’s happening is needed, but I doubt the financial incentive exists as NR big 3 tag sales are but a mere pittance to their coffers. A single sheep auction tag here provides substantially more funds to sheep management than all NR sheep tag sales combined, for example.

I would suspect the source is FWPs interpretation of the statute. If the statute reads 10% of sheep licenses that would include ewes as those are still sheep. If it said 10% of ram licenses then that’s different.

Hard to say