Montana corner crossing lawsuit.

[StupidLightweight]

I don’t blame the land brokers. No matter what they claim, it’s on the buyer to differentiate between the deeded acreage and state or BLM holdings. Only a fool would believe they’re outright buying public land.

 

[ganguscows]

You would be surprised the amount of people buying homes, land, ranches that never read a title report or even look at the assessors map of their property and assume whatever their real estate broker tells them is correct. I am constantly having to fight people on recorded easements and deeded right of way that people think they own just because the previous owners used it like they owned it.

 

[Axlrod]

I don’t blame the land brokers. No matter what they claim, it’s on the buyer to differentiate between the deeded acreage and state or BLM holdings. Only a fool would believe they’re outright buying public land.

You are totally missing my point. Everyone involved knows exactly what is going on.

The brokers "sell" the exclusive access to x number of acres of forest service land etc. They put it in their ads, in order to get a premium price. The buyers most certainly "buy" based on this exclusive border with public land. And they pay way more, than if the property borders private land.

This is why the land owner in Wy sued, and claimed his exclusive access was worth millions.

 

[Elk97]

I've never understood why corner crossing only applies to situations that involve public/private corners. Would the same trespassing law apply if it was two private owners with two parcels each but only joined at a four corner point. Could one private owner prevent the other from crossing at the center? Why the distinction of public (owned by the taxpayers)? Are taxpayer owned lands subservient to private, sure seems like it.

 

[StupidLightweight]

Private corner crossing doesn’t exist. Landowners don’t care if a neighbor drives a 40-foot combine through their property to access public or private property. But if a hunter wants to access public land they feel is theirs, by God, everyone knows that brief intrusion in the corner airspace is criminal!

 

[Axlrod]

I've never understood why corner crossing only applies to situations that involve public/private corners. Would the same trespassing law apply if it was two private owners with two parcels each but only joined at a four corner point. Could one private owner prevent the other from crossing at the center? Why the distinction of public (owned by the taxpayers)? Are taxpayer owned lands subservient to private, sure seems like it.

There is a LOT of public/private land in the west that is checkerboard. So that precludes what you are talking about.

I haven't seen anywhere there is checkerboard where 2 people each own 2/4 squares.
But there are property line disputes between land owners outside of this.

 

[jmez]

Looks like MOGA was a major player in Gianfortes campaign and election. Chuck Rein, controls the access at the base of the Crazies, president of MOGA, was on the transition team. Two other MOGA board members were also in the transition team. MOGA members are all over the donation list, many making max contributions.

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[CMF]

I've never understood why corner crossing only applies to situations that involve public/private corners. Would the same trespassing law apply if it was two private owners with two parcels each but only joined at a four corner point. Could one private owner prevent the other from crossing at the center? Why the distinction of public (owned by the taxpayers)? Are taxpayer owned lands subservient to private, sure seems like it.

That's what I don't get too.
Even if it's not an exact corner crossing, what happens when a private piece of land is locked up by other private pieces? Doesn't someone have to give up a right of way?

 

[One300wsm]

Private corner crossing doesn’t exist. Landowners don’t care if a neighbor drives a 40-foot combine through their property to access public or private property. But if a hunter wants to access public land they feel is theirs, by God, everyone knows that brief intrusion in the corner airspace is criminal!

Why is that corner crossings always considered private It’s 50/50. Why don’t the federal government put stipulations on the adjoining private property if no public access is granted via corner crossings than you have no access, we will site you for trespassing. We had a similar situation in Virginia with state land that is land locked via ridge of way. The landowners gated the right of way not allowing access. Virginia fish and game told the landowners if they didn’t open the gate for public access they would not be allowed to access the state land either and would be sited for trespassing.
Please forgive me, what am I thinking That’s to logical and no $$$$$$$$ changing hands.

 

[WRO]

Upom and the public lands council were also a part of the campaign and their both heinous groups as well.


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[WCB]

I've never understood why corner crossing only applies to situations that involve public/private corners. Would the same trespassing law apply if it was two private owners with two parcels each but only joined at a four corner point. Could one private owner prevent the other from crossing at the center? Why the distinction of public (owned by the taxpayers)? Are taxpayer owned lands subservient to private, sure seems like it.

Probably because when someone buys private land they have an established easement.

 

[MTGunner]

We should all be concerned that MOGA started this lawsuit. There has to be an angle in there somewhere.
Public land belongs to the public. Being denied access to hunt public land particularly when a fee has been paid to do so is unacceptable. Land locked School land is public land and access SHOULD be allowed. There has to be some sort of right away easement. My .02 cents. MTG

 

[DB29]

That's what I don't get too.
Even if it's not an exact corner crossing, what happens when a private piece of land is locked up by other private pieces? Doesn't someone have to give up a right of way?

Yes, it’s called an Easement by Necessity. I’m not sure but my guess is the issue with public land is ownership. For an easement by necessity you need actual ownership interest in the property. I’m not sure why the government can’t or doesn’t use eminent domain to get access though.

 

[One300wsm]

We should all be concerned that MOGA started this lawsuit. There has to be an angle in there somewhere.
Public land belongs to the public. Being denied access to hunt public land particularly when a fee has been paid to do so is unacceptable. Land locked School land is public land and access SHOULD be allowed. There has to be some sort of right away easement. My .02 cents. MTG

Conservation Groups vs. Montana FWP (Corner Crossing)
While MOGA advocates for outfitter business interests, independent hunters and conservationists are the ones currently suing for expanded public land access.

• The Lawsuit: Backcountry Hunters & Anglers (BHA) and the Public Land & Water Access Association (PLWA) filed a lawsuit challenging the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks (MFWP) stance that "corner crossing" (stepping diagonally between public land parcels over a corner of private property without touching the ground) is illegal.
• The Goal: Advocates are utilizing a major federal appeals court ruling in Wyoming (which legalized corner crossing in several Western states) to unlock over 871,000 acres of "corner-locked" public land in Montana.

 

[Jpsmith1]

We should all be concerned that MOGA started this lawsuit. There has to be an angle in there somewhere.
Public land belongs to the public. Being denied access to hunt public land particularly when a fee has been paid to do so is unacceptable. Land locked School land is public land and access SHOULD be allowed. There has to be some sort of right away easement. My .02 cents. MTG

So, why can't we, as a society, as a nation, purchase small blocks of land. Several square feet is all that is necessary. Surveys would be included to get a precise corner mark.


Install the crossing, make the exact location public via Plat maps, OnX and whatever other navigation aids that folks are using THEN we seriously prosecute folks who DO NOT use the crossing point. Treat is similarly to a game violation with license revocations.

I feel like I know the answer

 

[mtwarden]

We should all be concerned that MOGA started this lawsuit.

That’s false.

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, joined by
the PLWA, filed the suit.

My guess is that MOGA is not excited about corner crossing coming to Montana.

 

[nm.otter]

Land exchanges?? Really??

Chuck Rein, controls the access at the base of the Crazies, president of MOGA, was on the transition team. Two other MOGA board members were also in the transition team.

'We’re losing it’: One man’s fight to keep the Crazy Mountains public

Wilson isn’t just any Montanan. He’s a fifth-generation resident, founder of Friends of the Crazy Mountains, and a man with deep roots in these rugged lands.

www.ktvq.com

 

[100percent]

Conservation Groups vs. Montana FWP (Corner Crossing)
While MOGA advocates for outfitter business interests, independent hunters and conservationists are the ones currently suing for expanded public land access.

• The Lawsuit: Backcountry Hunters & Anglers (BHA) and the Public Land & Water Access Association (PLWA) filed a lawsuit challenging the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks (MFWP) stance that "corner crossing" (stepping diagonally between public land parcels over a corner of private property without touching the ground) is illegal.
• The Goal: Advocates are utilizing a major federal appeals court ruling in Wyoming (which legalized corner crossing in several Western states) to unlock over 871,000 acres of "corner-locked" public land in Montana.

Curious about intent of suing Fish and Game department? Why not state of Montana, proper? Fish and Game seemingly, at least in the hunting context, doesn’t implement the law but merely enforces the law….
Somebody clear this up for me, please. Is it legal to corner cross for general recreation or just hunting and fishing?