Montana (and other state) hunter orange laws out dated?

[Fowl Play]

Being that you can identify a deer or elk from a mile with 10x binoculars there is zero reason to use your scope until you are ready to kill something. It takes 10 seconds to pull binos from the harness, identify the animal and put them back in.

Throwing up your rifle at what you THINK MIGHT be an animal is exactly the problem. The default should be not shooting.

That said, I like the orange hat requirement. Plenty visible and easy to deal with. A vest under a pack and bino harness is such a pain in the butt.

So throwing up the rifle on something confirmed to have 4 legs is fine? With final identification of legal game animal coming through the scope?

Just want to see how close to the edge everyone is...

 

[Marshfly]

So throwing up the rifle on something confirmed to have 4 legs is fine? With final identification of legal game animal coming through the scope?

Just want to see how close to the edge everyone is...

Do you hunt in the west? Often? The original post specified Idaho, Oregon, and Montana.

The only way I'm "throwing a rifle up" is on a buck or bull that I jump that there is zero question is big. He will be close. Under 100 yards. And there will be zero mistaking his legality nor his species. The VAST majority of western big game are spotted with glass before you decide to shoot.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I’m on the glass half full side since it’s a requirement in my state and I just deal with it. I always fill my freezers, so…
I can see where others are at so I can avoid them. I don’t really think about getting shot…because I’m always trying to get where others are not.
If I’m hunting with buddies, I can see where they’re at if we’re spread out and covering ground.

 

[Marshfly]

I can see where others are at so I can avoid them. I don’t really think about getting shot…because I’m always trying to get where others are not.

Selfishly I love being able to see other hunters from far away. LOL.

 

[mtwarden]

^ there are advantages to orange (in addition to safety), my point is a orange cap would fulfill both

I’d probably voluntarily keep an orange panel on my pack, but being able to ditch the vest would be very welcomed

 

[elkenstein]

I’m a Montana resident, and I don’t see any issue with requiring orange. In more open area it allows me to spot other hunters and adjust my tactics accordingly. In thicker timber, I think it has some potential safety value as well. I fill my tags regardless of what color I’m wearing, so it’s not something I’m gonna get worked up about. I’d change a lot of other things about Montana’s FWP before I started in on orange laws.

Buy the vest and keep it in your truck. If nothing else, maybe it will save your ass while changing a flat on the side of the road.

 

[jmez]

You can't get a factual comparison. The numbers and data don't exist and there really isn't a way to make that the dependent variable.

Complete conjecture either way.

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[Pony Soldier]

I have killed so many elk and deer over the years in buffalo plaid shirts and coats that I find camo expensive and needless. It took a while to get use to orange vests but but camo orange made it more acceptable. Wearing them over the years and letting them fade and get dirty made them even more acceptable. The orange still catches the eyes of those that can see color but I don't shine. I even killed an elk at 10 ft one time and he didn't even see me.

 

[TheHammer]

I grew up in high pressure public hunting scenarios. This has instilled some values in me based on experience. September of 23 I showed up in Colorado mid September for my archery hunt. Once I left the truck I had several articles of orange on as I was trekking up the mountain side. Granted I did not encounter another human for 13days. My experience taught me it wasn’t even an option, for as long as muzzle loader season was in place I was wearing orange. As for the bino statements. I’m curious as to how many guys do not use binos? I have several reasons I do not anymore. I do however use a 7x rangefinder which allows me to quickly identify and range, if needed I pull out the compact spotter.

 

[wind gypsy]

It's been mandated since I started hunting in the 90's everywhere I've firearm hunted big game. I'm positive it has saved lives. How many? maybe not a ton in the west. It's a minor inconvenience. Tying it to some big bad government overreach seems a bit rich.

 

[Dogone]

A moose hunter in Saskatchewan killed a game warden . The warden was driving a red swamp buggy in thick willows. The hunter saw or thought he saw a moose and shot. Warden died. I don’t believe charges were laid. 40 years after the event the hunter still insisted he saw a moose. And I he could very well have. Shit happens. Be careful.

 

[mt terry d]

It's obviously about "safety" when the hunter (AKA Guy with the gun) is required
to wear it but no one else is.

Gotta disagree Wind Gypsy, Overreach is the whole purpose of government.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Overreach is the whole purpose of government.

Right, and tin foil is only used for hats.

 

[StickSlingers]

REPOSTING for those claiming it’s not quantifiable, it’s not government overreach, or that is saves tons of lives every year. Take a look at the for yourself before you speak opinion as fact. All of these seem to be within the margin of error showing that it is really a wash. These numbers also include ALL firearm injuries including self inflicted. Not just mistaken identity. There’s even an incident in Oregon where a man got shot in the head after his orange hat was mistaken for a clay pigeon.



I compiled averages from state websites for your viewing pleasure. I compiled the most recent data available over a five year period for each state some states like Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, & Arizona had no data available
*feel free to check my math I'm not perfect*

Hunting fatalities vs non fatalities per states


Orange required states


Washington 2018-2022
# of hunters 190,000
Fatalities 0
Non fatalities 16
Average annual
Fatalities 0
Non 3.2

Utah 2013-2017
# of hunters 468,000
Fatalities 4
Non fatalities 26
Average annual
Fatalities 0.8
Non 5.2

Colorado 2016-2020
# of hunters 361,000
Fatalities 3
Non fatalities 22
Average annual
Fatalities 0.6
Non 4.4


No orange requirement states


Oregon 2014-2019
# of hunters 331,000
Fatalities 5
Non fatalities 7
Average annual
Fatalities 1
Non 1.4

Idaho 2014-2010
# of hunters 300,000
Fatalities 2
Non fatalities 12
Average annual
Fatalities.4
Non 2.4

California 2012-2016
# of hunters 300,000
Fatalities 8
Non fatalities 48
Average annual
Fatalities 1.6
Non 9.6


Average accidents per million across all non orange states
Fatal 3.22
Non 14.39

Less the highest incident state
Fatal 2.21
Non 6.02



Average accidents per million across all orange required states
Fatal 1.37
Non 12.56

Less the highest incident state
Fatal 1.08
Non 11.67



This was as honest of a compilation that i could come up with, the obvious outlier being California.
If you take them out of the mix and Utah your twice as likely to die in a non orange state (one in a million vs two in a million mind you) but more than twice as likely to be shot in a state that requires orange. Keep in mind, allot of these incidents are not a case of mistaken identity. Most are due to weapon mishandling.
I am amazed at how many people on this forum claim so matter of fact that something is the way it is simply because they FEEL a that it is, without ever looking at a stitch of data. I encourage those calling others idiots and tin foil hats to take a look at the data for yourself.
You feel so adamantly that people do what YOU feel is right for THEIR safety, but forget that the tides could easily turn when a majority of the population FEELS like hunting is bad, but doesn't take into account any hard numbers when they decide to take YOUR hunting rights away. yes it's just wearing orange, but normalizing forcing people to do something without any clear evidence of its effectiveness will surely escalate overtime. Look at Washington's spring bear season. I will proudly wear my tin foil hat if it simply means that i make decisions off of facts not opinions.
Most importantly remember we're all on the same team!


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[MakAttack]

I despise orange. If I do wear it it's the smallest thinnest mesh vest they make and I keep it pinched behind my pack straps. If I'm glassing, I glass from shadows and/or cover and the orange comes off. I don't want the clowns on the mountain seeing me. I'm there to hunt, which flat out means I'm there to not be seen.

 

[ThunderJack49]

I'm just here to say I hate orange. I think it is marginally easier for animals to spot at close ranges but really can't stand being told I need to wear it for my safety. Being "safe" is often just a feeling or an illusion we create for ourselves. We all are quick to call the common man an idiot, but we are all common men. Let's start the petition.

Edit: I wanted to add that killing someone accidentally also includes the decision to shoot. Lots of people on here talking about pointing rifles at people, but it's also the conscious decision to pull the trigger. Those should be wildly different choices for anyone "trained" with a firearm. No law is going to be able to protect you from that amount of gross negligence.

 

[StickSlingers]

I'm just here to say I hate orange. I think it is marginally easier for animals to spot at close ranges but really can't stand being told I need to wear it for my safety. Being "safe" is often just a feeling or an illusion we create for ourselves. We all are quick to call the common man an idiot, but we are all common men. Let's start the petition.

Atta guy. Someone from Montana that acts like it! Yes “who cares, just do it” but WHY are we doing something because someone says so with no fact based evidence whatsoever, and no requirement for anyone but hunters?
I understand it’s a small inconvenience but small things turn into big things. Reading this thread makes me feel like I’m reliving covid.
If you’re doing it for your own peace of mind more power to ya! Other than that, it’s a dumb fear based rule


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