Montana (and other state) hunter orange laws out dated?

[StickSlingers]

I hunt Oregon every year and I can’t tell you how many times I have been “scoped” by people that apparently don’t carry binoculars. I can see the value of wearing orange, people are dumb and stuff happens.

Yeah i get it, ive only been scoped once. Went and had a chat with the guy. Unfortunately i dont think wearing orange eliminates other peoples bad habits, although they might pull off you faster after seeing the orange


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[Ucsdryder]

Do you think you’d get shot without it? And if so why? Not trying to be a dick, I’m genuinely curious


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Guys get shot in Colorado almost every single year, so I guess the answer is yes, it’s absolutely a possibility! Muzzle loader shot a bow hunter 2 years ago. A buddy shot his buddy that was standing over a dead elk 3 years ago. The guy that got shot took his orange off. Shooter saw the elk, knew they were after a wounded bull, and shot and killed his buddy standing behind the elk. Would he have shot if the guy had a hat and shirt ont
?. I don’t think anybody got shot last year!

 

[StickSlingers]

Yeah, guys who don’t wear orange during rifle/muzzleloader seasons trust their fellow man way too much. I’m not going to rat you out if you’re not wearing it, but I am going to think you are pretty dumb. But you are entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

I mean, if I catch movement in the distance in a hunting situation I may check it out through my scope. If you want to be sitting in my crosshairs while I confirm my target. Go for it. I’m not going to shoot you, but I wouldn’t have scoped you if you were wearing orange.

I would argue that it’s safer not wearing orange than it is to scope people even if it’s an accident. Try both with a game warden and see how they react lol


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[StickSlingers]

Guys get shot in Colorado almost every single year, so I guess the answer is yes, it’s absolutely a possibility! Muzzle loader shot a bow hunter 2 years ago. A buddy shot his buddy that was standing over a dead elk 3 years ago. The guy that got shot took his orange off. Shooter saw the elk, knew they were after a wounded bull, and shot and killed his buddy standing behind the elk. Would he have shot if the guy had a hat and shirt ont
?. I don’t think anybody got shot last year!

Yeah i get where you’re coming from brotha. I guess my point is while there is individual incidents that orange would have helped, when you compare non mandatory states vs mandatory states the number of incidents a year are neck and neck. One could also argue that since orange IS required guys are more trigger happy when they don’t see orange vs a state that doesn’t have a mandate. I know that i verify everything with binoculars before my gun goes up


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[Fowl Play]

I would argue that it’s safer not wearing orange than it is to scope people even if it’s an accident. Try both with a game warden and see how they react lol

Maybe you are not thinking of the situations I'm talking about. I'm not talking about actively scanning country, using your rifle as a binocular.

Let me give you a situation. 1000 yards out you see something moving through chest high sagebrush. Pull out the binos and can't quiet tell what it is. Are you:

A. Walking 500 yards in a direction you didn't intend to, to figure out what it is with your binoculars
OR
B. Resting your 15x scope on a nearby rock and see what the heck it is.

If you think all hunters are doing A you have too much faith in your fellow man.

 

[sickles107]

MT regs are 400 square inches above the waist.

I happily wear an orange vest during rifle season, and would prefer others do as well. Main thought is shooting at an animal not knowing someone is in the generl direction behind it.

Over the course of my life, while wearing an orange vest, I have had people pull up their rifle on me, mistaking me as an animal. Have had people shooting at animals in my direction, both close and far, not knowing I was there. Have watch bumped animals run out in front of people, and while they have their rifle pulled up they sweep me with their muzzle, both close and far. Have also seen an orange dot on a ridge and decided to go a differnt route. All multiple times.

The idea of pulling an orange vest law is illogical in my mind, and not wearing one is ridiculously dangerous and frankly, very stupid. We're not talking dress codes here, we're talking intent to prevent putting a bullet in someone, or someone putting a bullet in you.

 

[jhm2023]

You can take it how you feel. Scoping another hunter is never intentional, and I do not think I have violated any firearm safety rule. The hunter not wearing orange has. It is not always possible to identify your target by eye, especially when you are carrying a weapon capable of accurately firing a round 500+ yards.

I actively try to keep items in the edge of my scope before I identify it. But even when I am carrying binoculars, I have pulled out my scope to check out things I could not identify under a lower magnification. Any hunter who claims he has not done this, is either a liar or kidding himself.

Ok, I can change your culpable mental state from intentionally to negligently. Plus, "I will always wear orange" is not a firearms safety rule, so there's that. Below are the four firearms safety rules. Different agencies and organizations have slightly different wording, but the concept is generally the same. I took the liberty to capitalize the ones you'd violate by "negligently" aiming at movement. Perhaps you should attend a hunter's safety class. Intentionally, sorry "negligently", aiming a firearm at movement that ended up being a human could probably be construed as some form of assault or misconduct involving a weapon.

-ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.
-NEVER LET YOUR MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY.
-Keep you finger off the trigger until YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET and you have decided to fire.
-BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET, IT'S SURROUNDINGS, AND BEYOND.

 

[2-Stix]

In CA no orange is required, it's not about a state's freedom it appears.

I wear an orange hat in all the states I hunt.

 

[StickSlingers]

Maybe you are not thinking of the situations I'm talking about. I'm not talking about actively scanning country, using your rifle as a binocular.

Let me give you a situation. 1000 yards out you see something moving through chest high sagebrush. Pull out the binos and can't quiet tell what it is. Are you:

A. Walking 500 yards in a direction you didn't intend to, to figure out what it is with your binoculars
OR
B. Resting your 15x scope on a nearby rock and see what the heck it is.

If you think all hunters are doing A you have too much faith in your fellow man.

No i understand what you’re saying! And i can say honestly im going to glass whatever it is with my non rifle scope optics until im ready to take a shot. I find they have better optical quality than my scope anyways. There’s no denying that guys do it! That doesn’t mean you should. If someone does it to me i will walk out of my way to have a chat with them about it. If someone does it to a game warden he’s going to throw the book at you


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[Fowl Play]

Ok, I can change your culpable mental state from intentionally to negligently. Plus, "I will always wear orange" is not a firearms safety rule, so there's that. Below are the four firearms safety rules. Different agencies and organizations have slightly different wording, but the concept is generally the same. I took the liberty to capitalize the ones you'd violate by "negligently" aiming at movement. Perhaps you should attend a hunter's safety class. Intentionally, sorry "negligently", aiming a firearm at movement that ended up being a human could probably be construed as some form of assault or misconduct involving a weapon.

-ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.
-NEVER LET YOUR MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY.
-Keep you finger off the trigger until YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET and you have decided to fire.
-BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET, IT'S SURROUNDINGS, AND BEYOND.

All I'm saying is.... that last step can definitely happen through a rifle scope when you are hunting with a rifle. Wearing orange also helps fellow hunters with that last step of checking surroundings and beyond....

The last guy I remember calling an idiot, to myself, was sitting down in thick brush, wearing a black jacket. In a popular location to hunt wild boar. That are predominantly black. That identification came through my scope as I was actively hunting wild boar. I do not think another hunter would have done that differently.

 

[StickSlingers]

MT regs are 400 square inches above the waist.

I happily wear an orange vest during rifle season, and would prefer others do as well. Main thought is shooting at an animal not knowing someone is in the generl direction behind it.

Over the course of my life, while wearing an orange vest, I have had people pull up their rifle on me, mistaking me as an animal. Have had people shooting at animals in my direction, both close and far, not knowing I was there. Have also seen an orange dot on a ridge and decided to go a differnt route. All multiple times.

The idea of pulling an orange vest law is illogical in my mind, and not wearing one is ridiculously dangerous and frankly, very stupid. We're not talking dress codes here, we're talking intent to prevent putting a bullet in someone, or someone putting a bullet in you.

So even though you were wearing orange you still got scoped multiple times? I wouldn’t call not wearing one stupid, me and thousands of people in non mandated states do it every year without incident. Stupid people always find a way to be stupid. They could shoot a person not wearing orange or like the example i gave in my original post, they could shoot someone in the head because they though their orange hat was a clay pigeon. I believe everyone has a right to their opinion, but just because someone believes theirs is right doesn’t mean they should force it on everyone else. Especially when there is a major lack of evidence that it makes a measurable difference, and lots of inconsistencies in who’s required to wear it. As a matter of fact the only time I’ve ever been shot i was wearing orange on a bird hunt haha


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[LongWayAround]

A buddy shot his buddy that was standing over a dead elk 3 years ago. The guy that got shot took his orange off. Shooter saw the elk, knew they were after a wounded bull, and shot and killed his buddy standing behind the elk.

That's exactly what I thought of when I saw this.

 

[StickSlingers]

You can take it how you feel. Scoping another hunter is never intentional, and I do not think I have violated any firearm safety rule. The hunter not wearing orange has. It is not always possible to identify your target by eye, especially when you are carrying a weapon capable of accurately firing a round 500+ yards.

I actively try to keep items in the edge of my scope before I identify it. But even when I am carrying binoculars, I have pulled out my scope to check out things I could not identify under a lower magnification. Any hunter who claims he has not done this, is either a liar or kidding himself.

Only pointing your weapon at something you intend to kill is one of the pillars of firearm safety. Wearing orange is not. buy a cheap spotting scope and you’ll be dialed


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[Oregon]

I don't have much faith in the average hunter's judgement, I wear orange even when it isn't required and I put an orange panel on the back of my backpack. Realistically, by the time I put on my backpack and bino harness there isn't much of the vest that is still visible, hence the back panel. I will also admit that there are times when I don't wear orange either because of being in a remote location or clear indications that other hunters are not in the area. More often than not I tend to wear it anyway.

There may be another element to this. It makes it a lot easier for Game Wardens to identify and locate hunters in the field.

It's all about Wardens seeing you. We don't have an orange rule in this state. No one gets shot

 

[StickSlingers]

It's all about Wardens seeing you. We don't have an orange rule in this state. No one gets shot

My point exactly. Is that a Rosie in your photo?


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[Fordguy]

I don't mind wearing orange on public property, but why should I be required to wear orange on my own private property in multiple states?

 

[def90]

A rifle hunter was shot by a member of his hunting group a couple years ago in Co. He had taken off his orange and was kneeling next to a downed elk when one of his hunting partners shot him after seeing the downed elk and movement.

I'd say wear what you want but don't act surprised if something happens. People are stupid, the laws are out there to protect you from stupid people. Turkey hunters don't have to wear orange and probably get shot the most out of any hunting group.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Yeah i get where you’re coming from brotha. I guess my point is while there is individual incidents that orange would have helped, when you compare non mandatory states vs mandatory states the number of incidents a year are neck and neck. One could also argue that since orange IS required guys are more trigger happy when they don’t see orange vs a state that doesn’t have a mandate. I know that i verify everything with binoculars before my gun goes up


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Who knows. Probably impossible since there are too many variables. I’ll wear my orange shirt and hat and my kids wear a ton of orange. I feel like my chances of getting shot if I look like a pumpkin are less, so that’s what I go with.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

No orange required in CA. I think they’re hoping we hunters shoot each other..

I have actually had people tell me they wish we would all just shoot each other. I asked them to hold my gun.

 

[Grundy53]

Yeah, guys who don’t wear orange during rifle/muzzleloader seasons trust their fellow man way too much. I’m not going to rat you out if you’re not wearing it, but I am going to think you are pretty dumb. But you are entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

I mean, if I catch movement in the distance in a hunting situation I may check it out through my scope. If you want to be sitting in my crosshairs while I confirm my target. Go for it. I’m not going to shoot you, but I wouldn’t have scoped you if you were wearing orange.

Wow...

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