Mono metal discussion

[Ringbill27]

I’ve been making the switch to mono metals (personal decision not being forced) for my hunting rigs and have been loading all Barnes.

I’ve noticed that a lot of people recommend Hammer Bullets over Barnes or the Hornady CX.

Are Hammers really worth the extra cost? Is the performance really that superior to pay roughly $20 per 50?

PS. I don’t really care if you like cup and core or bondeds. That’s fine. I just don’t care.

 

[Mulyhuntr]

HAMMER Bullets Performance on Game

This year is my first hunting with Hammer bullets. I took a bull and a buck with 152 g Hammer Hunters .308 caliber. The bull was less than 100 yards, quartering towards me; shot took him on point of his left shoulder breaking the bone and dropped him instantly. He never regained his feet. Bullet...

rokslide.com

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Different rather than superior, kinda like fragmenting cup and core vs bonded cup and core, it depends how you intend to deploy them. Are you a lung shooter? If so a bullet that fragments more is better there. If you shoot a bullet that holds together than shooting heart/arterial bundle makes more sense for that bullet.

I mostly shoot barnes but do shoot some hammers. The hammers are easily to load for and kick off a cool vapor trail in flight. But I had a bad batch of them 4yrs ago which caused some problems on game so I reeled back my use of them and haven't had too many more shots on game since (grabbing different guns with Barnes and/or not harvesting something on the hunts I grabbed the rifle with hammers in it) but others don't seem to have issues. I haven't had any issues with barnes with the caveat that I keep impact velocities notably higher than the minimum and I shoot for the heart/arterial bundle.

 

[Ringbill27]

Different rather than superior, kinda like fragmenting cup and core vs bonded cup and core, it depends how you intend to deploy them.

interesting. They are the cup and core of the mono world. Fragments in the meat is the reason I switched to monos.

Most my hunting is done with in 150yds and woods so I typically have to take the shot that I’m given. I’m not to worried about to little of velocity as I try to load them as hot as possible while keeping accuracy.

I just seems like there is a lot of hype to the Hammers and I’m not sure if it’s really warranted. Really seems like a Ford, Chevy and Dodge argument like all things

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

interesting. They are the cup and core of the mono world. Fragments in the meat is the reason I switched to monos.

Most my hunting is done with in 150yds and woods so I typically have to take the shot that I’m given. I’m not to worried about to little of velocity as I try to load them as hot as possible while keeping accuracy.

I just seems like there is a lot of hype to the Hammers and I’m not sure if it’s really warranted. Really seems like a Ford, Chevy and Dodge argument like all things

The break off into petals vs tiny fragments, so don't get the wrong impression they are like a match bullet expansion. There is a lead free now (I forget the brand) that has a powdered core that blows apart, no experience with them.

The hammers have hype because they are easy to load for and in my experience shoot really accurately and have alot of options for folks to play with, some folks like the sling light ones at extremely high velocities, etc. Barnes are more affordable but can be a bit more finicky to work up a load and aren't quite as consistent as a lathe turned bullet, but are typically suitable for me needs as well. If the hammers were cheaper I'd probably use them more. Some might mention the MSRP of barnes is approaching hammers now but that ignores you can get some deep sales on Barnes periodically.

 

[Andouille]

DRT are the bullets @pods8 (Rugged Stitching) is mentioning above and they use a tungsten core to achieve a better BC than mono metal bullets (if I understand correctly). There's also some other interesting copper bullets from Badlands (fragmenting, similar to Hammers) and Maker (non-fragmenting, large expanding) that should have better terminal ballistics at longer ranges and lower velocities than Barnes or Hornady monos. That said, I only have experience with Barnes TTSX, so I can't speak to the efficacy of the aforementioned options.

 

[Ringbill27]

If the hammers were cheaper I'd probably use them more. Some might mention the MSRP of barnes is approaching hammers now but that ignores you can get some deep sales on Barnes periodically.

I regularly find the Barnes I’m looking for for $32-38 a box. Really dependent on TSX or TTSX. Just wait for the sale somewhere is what I do. One of the sites will have one going. Midway surprisingly is one of the more common sites.

I’ll have to do more reading the thread linked by @Mulyhuntr.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I’ve had very mixed results with Hammers in terms of accuracy. I’m about 50/50 on being able tune them. I usually buy a sample box of 15 and if I can’t get them to tune in those 15 rounds I move on. I have better things to do that time a bullet my rifle doesn’t like.

I’ve had success tuning Badlands which seem to fall between Hammer and Barnes. At high velocity they fragment but at lower velocity they expand like a Barnes.

The easiest mono I have found to tune to date has been Cutting Edge Lazers. You mention your shots are not long range so maybe the Raptor line of bullets may suit your style of shots better.


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[wapitibob]

I've killed with both the TSX and the Hammers, neither shot anywhere near the groups I get with Berger but for killing, I had no complaints with either solid. I'm a believer in light for caliber with solids and ran them both at 3400 + out of a 7STW.

 

[Ringbill27]

DRT are the bullets @pods8 (Rugged Stitching) is mentioning above and they use a tungsten core to achieve a better BC than mono metal bullets (if I understand correctly). There's also some other interesting copper bullets from Badlands (fragmenting, similar to Hammers) and Maker (non-fragmenting, large expanding) that should have better terminal ballistics at longer ranges and lower velocities than Barnes or Hornady monos. That said, I only have experience with Barnes TTSX, so I can't speak to the efficacy of the aforementioned options.

I have looked at Makers in the past but not a ton on info out there and I tend to forget about them.

 

[Ringbill27]

I’ve had success tuning Badlands which seem to fall between Hammer and Barnes. At high velocity they fragment but at lower velocity they expand like a Barnes.

The easiest mono I have found to tune to date has been Cutting Edge Lazers. You mention your shots are not long range so maybe the Raptor line of bullets may suit your style of shots better.

this post is going to get expensive for me. I’ll look into the raptors.

 

[omicron1792]

I like CEB raptor a little better than hammers. But I do like hammers. They opened the channel on the hammer hunters to get more reliable expansion. For shorter distance hunting the shock or absolute hammers are devastating.

I’ve been using CEB Maximus line recently with great results. They are reasonably priced too.

The raptors petals expand outward while the hammers follow the original wound channel.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Also to toss in the mix, Lehigh has some bullets too. I have no experience but was just looking at the 140gr controlled chaos for 30-30 win because it seems like it's meant to truly fragment still at lower velocities based on how its notched, etc.

 

[Ringbill27]

Also to toss in the mix, Lehigh has some bullets too. I have no experience but was just looking at the 140gr controlled chaos for 30-30 win because it seems like it's meant to truly fragment still at lower velocities based on how its notched, etc.

I have heard of them and the chaos doesn’t sound like a fit for me. Just worked of a load with the hornady 140gr monoflexs for my 30-30. I have to tinker with it a little more but I’m close.

 

[Andouille]

this post is going to get expensive for me. I’ll look into the raptors.

Raptors in 150gr are on my short list for my 30-06, and maybe a slightly heavier bullet for my 300 WSM. The cost of the Makers is very reasonable. At a glance cost increases from Maker< Badlands < Hammer< Cutting Edge bullets.

I like how the expanded bullets look like a peeled banana, with the petals showing substantially more expansion than TTSX. There's some gel block tests on Youtube that look promising, though you have to sort through the numerous subsonic Maker bullet videos.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I’ve used Barnes TSX for many years. I began transitioning to Hammers about 6-7 years ago.

I’ve had great luck with them, from 50 yards to 410 yards.

I find the Hammers easier to load than Barnes and give a little better speed. Terminal performance is very good.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I have heard of them and the chaos doesn’t sound like a fit for me. Just worked of a load with the hornady 140gr monoflexs for my 30-30. I have to tinker with it a little more but I’m close.

What have you heard that wasn't a fit? I'm early in my research on it. You using leverevolution in the monoflex? My only concern with the monoflex was it seemed like it has minimal expansion past 150yd or so.

 

[Ringbill27]

What have you heard that wasn't a fit? I'm early in my research on it. You using leverevolution in the monoflex? My only concern with the monoflex was it seemed like it has minimal expansion past 150yd or so.

For the the chaos is they are designed to blow apart and I wish to kept fragmenting to a minimum.

I am using leverevolution with the monoflexs. It’s a 1934 win 94 with iron sights. I struggle to see the target at 100yds. It’s more of a close range walking in the woods rifle these days.

I found some monoflexs super cheap once and was experimenting with them for my 7.62x39. Which is my mine deer rifle. I was getting okay groups 1-1.5” but switched to the 123gr TSX which shoots great. So once I got 30-30 dies I loaded some up and took no time to find a decent load.

 

[Mike D Texas]

this post is going to get expensive for me. I’ll look into the raptors.

The CE Maximus would be another good choice.


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[Koda_]

For the the chaos is they are designed to blow apart and I wish to kept fragmenting to a minimum.

Ive never used the Lehighs but regarding Hammer bullets your inquiring about they are designed to fragment but only the petals but their base is designed to act like a wad cutter and penetrate deep. Plus the petals are designed to follow the wound channel path which helps expand the wound channel.

I switched to monos a couple years ago started with Barnes. Barnes performed very well for me you cant go wrong, they are designed to mushroom and not fragment if thats what you want. I decided to try Hammers because I like the petal shedding/wadcutter penetration idea myself.

Heres a video interview with Hammer describing how their bullets work. Its an hour but goes into the detail you might be interested in.