Momentous Changes in the U.S. Marine Corps’ Force Organization Deserve Debate.

[swamphunter]

I cant imagine the shenanigans that will follow with the introduction of squad level UAVs!

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

 

[Marbles]

• Elimination of all the tanks in the Marine Corps, even from the reserves.

Tanks, like battle ships, are obsolete. Just like air craft rendered battle ships inefective because they could be easily and cheaply (relatively speaking) taken out, so do weapons like Javalins.

The math is simple, $6.21 million for an Abrams tank. $78K for a Javalin (and the $126K for the reusable command launcher). To keep the math easy and favor the tank, we will assume a cost of $200K per Javalin. Lets assume it takes 5 infantryman with Javalins to kill 1 tank and 4 of the infantryman will die. So:

Blue Tank, loss of 4 crew and $6.21 million.

Red Infantry, loss of 4 men and $1 million in Javalins.

Considering that the reality is that with a trained force a small team can take out several tanks while suffering no losses, this is even more damning for the future of tanks.

As for the rest of the points, I think the US military has been under funded since the 1990s, so I disagree with downsizing. If something is eleminated, it should be to reinvest in a different part of the force that is more capable. However, trying to freeze capabilities in the past (like keeping tanks) is a mindset that will be payed for in blood when the next major war happens.

 

[mwebs]

Russia rolling tanks into Ukraine looked dated like WW2. Everyone on earth new there was a “40 mile long convoy” headed for Kiev. All I could think was that a few cruise missles and some F 35 would take that out in 2 mins. Tanks just seem obsolete.

 

[Squincher]

Tanks in urban areas or sitting still in columns have always been a problem. I think pronouncing them obsolete is way premature.

Trading 16 cannon battalions for 14 rocket battalions is an upgrade.

 

[eddielasvegas]

No intent to hijack this thread, but this might be just as moot.

The second paragraph is what scares me the most.

Marines Can Have Longer Hair, Wear Different Color Socks Under New Uniform Changes

According to a statement from the Corps announcing the changes, the goal is to "positively impact diversity, equity, and inclusion."

www.yahoo.com

Eddie

 

[JjamesIII]

Russia rolling tanks into Ukraine looked dated like WW2. Everyone on earth new there was a “40 mile long convoy” headed for Kiev. All I could think was that a few cruise missles and some F 35 would take that out in 2 mins. Tanks just seem obsolete.

It wasn’t as bad as sadam’s convoy that got lamb basted by US air superiority in Iraq. That was just miles of scorched tarmac.

 

[SWOHTR]

No intent to hijack this thread, but this might be just as moot.

The second paragraph is what scares me the most.

Marines Can Have Longer Hair, Wear Different Color Socks Under New Uniform Changes

According to a statement from the Corps announcing the changes, the goal is to "positively impact diversity, equity, and inclusion."

www.yahoo.com

Eddie

Why, what is scary about diversity and inclusion?

Consider for a moment that Alexander the Great was bisexual, and then look at his empire. Sorry, but the days of non-inclusion are gone. For many reasons, we need to open our ranks to ALL who are willing to serve, meet the standards, and willing to fight.

 

[Hoodie]

No intent to hijack this thread, but this might be just as moot.

The second paragraph is what scares me the most.

Marines Can Have Longer Hair, Wear Different Color Socks Under New Uniform Changes

According to a statement from the Corps announcing the changes, the goal is to "positively impact diversity, equity, and inclusion."

www.yahoo.com

Eddie

As a Marine who did my dead level best to uphold the proud traditions of my community by regularly pushing the limits of the grooming standards and wearing black socks whenever I could get away with it, I support these changes.

The article said the new limit was three inches on top. I thought that's what it always was.

I didn't wear a tee shirt under my blouse either until a platoon sergeant insisted I'd have to fade my chest hair. I couldn't afford two haircuts a week and beer. Simpler times.

 

[Deadfall]

SMH...one thing about it. Sure it will change

 

[MattB]

No intent to hijack this thread, but this might be just as moot.

The second paragraph is what scares me the most.

Marines Can Have Longer Hair, Wear Different Color Socks Under New Uniform Changes

According to a statement from the Corps announcing the changes, the goal is to "positively impact diversity, equity, and inclusion."

www.yahoo.com

Eddie

The fact that the second paragraph scares some Americans is what scares me.

On the topic at hand, the current situation in Ukraine is as good an example as exists as to why militaries need to adjust to remain effective.

 

[Marbles]

Tanks in urban areas or sitting still in columns have always been a problem. I think pronouncing them obsolete is way premature.

Trading 16 cannon battalions for 14 rocket battalions is an upgrade.

If you feel like an interesting read, pick up Roughneck One Nine. While it does not address the issue of tanks directly, it provides good food for thought on the topic.

 

[Spoonbill]

Among other decisions, Gen. Berger’s “Force Structure 2030” plan includes these provisions:


• Elimination of three infantry battalions from the current 24, a 14% reduction in frontline combat strength.

• Reduction of each remaining battalion by 200 Marines, taking an additional 4,200 infantry Marines from the frontline combat capabilities.

• Elimination of two reserve-component infantry battalions of the present eight, a 25% reduction of combat strength.

• Elimination of 16 cannon artillery battalions, a 76% reduction, to be replaced by 14 rocket artillery battalions, for use in “successful naval campaigns.”

• Elimination of all the tanks in the Marine Corps, even from the reserves.

to see more check link....

Opinion | Momentous Changes in the U.S. Marine Corps’ Force Organization Deserve Debate

Retired generals raise telling questions about the current commandant’s radical new ideas.

www.wsj.com

Going out on a limb, but I assume the good Marines will be kept and this is a way to increase standards by making the Marine Corps smaller and raising the requirements to join.
If you have to cut 200 people, logically it will be the worst 200 people you have. The best Marines from the eliminated battalions will likely be rolled into the remaining battalions, which would force the people in charge to cut even more from the bottom.
I know that this is a logical thought and we are dealing with the government, so not likely to play out this way.

 

[eddielasvegas]

Why, what is scary about diversity and inclusion?

Consider for a moment that Alexander the Great was bisexual, and then look at his empire. Sorry, but the days of non-inclusion are gone. For many reasons, we need to open our ranks to ALL who are willing to serve, meet the standards, and willing to fight.

Nothing scary about diversity. After all, when I was in the Corps, we were all green.

Some were light green and some were dark green, but green we all were.

DEI permeates everything today, especially corporate America. I have some experience with that and therein lies my concern for the Corps, and my comment.

I'll be glad to buy you dinner and give you my worthless opinion on topic should you find yourself in my neck of the woods.

Semper Fi,

Eddie


P.S. Alexander lived 2500 years ago. While your comparison may have merit, I'm pretty sure nobody was worried about using proper pronouns to address men and women in those days.

 

[TRD1911]

Nothing about diversity and inclusion is scary as long as the STANDARD isn't changed to accommodate it. The purpose of the infantry is to fight, and fight to win...not equal outcome.

On topic: I think many of the proposed changes are on point. Mobile elements that can hit and move dynamically are the future. Occupation and nation building is a failed strategy as we have seen recently. The Marine Corps needs to get back to this assault force style fighting but now with cooler hair

 

[isItFallYet]

Mixed feelings about tanks here. What about AAVs? When was the last amphibious landing? The hair and socks thing, meh! This whole diversity thing is a joke to me. Feels like forcing a square peg through a round hole. Somewhere online, I saw snippets of the new required annual training and it made me cringe. What happens if you are a male (by birth) DI and you want recruits to call you ma’am or they? Aye aye, they/ma’am???? It’s a big nope from me. I’m also of the mindset that grunt MOSs should remain male. Not knocking FMs (female Marines), there’s just a lot of unnecessary drama that is at play and could compromise the mission. Like every Marine says; the Corps was different when I first joined, and it couldn’t be more true in these recent years.

 

[Squincher]

The fact that the second paragraph scares some Americans is what scares me.

On the topic at hand, the current situation in Ukraine is as good an example as exists as to why militaries need to adjust to remain effective.

The situation in Ukraine is a good example of why we should stop believing what Russia says about their military capabilities.

 

[SWOHTR]

Nothing scary about diversity. After all, when I was in the Corps, we were all green.

Some were light green and some were dark green, but green we all were.

DEI permeates everything today, especially corporate America. I have some experience with that and therein lies my concern for the Corps, and my comment.

I'll be glad to buy you dinner and give you my worthless opinion on topic should you find yourself in my neck of the woods.

Semper Fi,

Eddie


P.S. Alexander lived 2500 years ago. While your comparison may have merit, I'm pretty sure nobody was worried about using proper pronouns to address men and women in those days.

I 100% agree with you. My misreading of your post! As a current servicemember I do echo your concerns. The way I interpreted your comment was different than your clarification, so thanks for that. Save your money on me and buy your spouse/kids/parents dinner!

 

[SWOHTR]

The situation in Ukraine is a good example of why we should stop believing what Russia says about their military capabilities.

You mean they're not 10 feet tall and bulletproof?

FWIW, a while ago we observed their "underway refueling" capabilities for their Navy. Basically drifting in the ocean for hours...

 

[3325]

It doesnt mention in in Berger's plan, but it is implied with the littoral regiment that infantry Marines will be supporting artillery Marines and their anti-ship missiles. The grunts are just security.

Not a new idea. In WWI, the French idea was that artillery conquers and infantry occupies. I know that’s not exactly what you said, but it’s along the same line.

 

[3325]

I’m former Army, not USMC. But the Commandant’s ideas seem reasonable to me. The USMC is becoming smaller and more agile. And why shouldn’t it?

Q: What’s the least likely thing the USMC will have to do in the 21st Century?

A: Ride an amphibious tractor across a coral reef and assault directly into a beach defense in depth.

The USMC used to be a force of shipboard detachments. It began evolving toward a second land army in WWI and completed the evolution in WWII. If you have two land armies, one of them is redundant.