Missing Rifle Scope Features?

[alpine_troop]

Must be referring to his YouTube channel THLR.NO

 

[260madman]

Watch it and learn.

 

[PantherCity]

Must be referring to his YouTube channel THLR.NO

I wasn’t aware of his channel, just checked it out and it looks like a great resource, I subscribed and I’m sure I’ll be spending a lot of time there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Elmer J. Fudd]

It’s a great channel. He doesn’t mess around and he gets to the point.

 

[Dobermann]

Yes.
I expect to have a few glimpses shown in YouTube episode 358 (public end of month). That scope had a "cleaned" hunting version of reticle. Not sure when it'll be on the market. Scope specs? Hard to believe, but it didn't register with me. But it felt "right" the three days I used it (prototype).

Hi Thomas, Aaaaany chance of telling us who the manufacturer/brand is?

 

[left hunter]

Episode is up now. He was running some new Revik scope. I can’t tell anything about it as far as exact power range or objective size.

 

[amassi]

Episode is up now. He was running some new Revik scope. I can’t tell anything about it as far as exact power range or objective size.

From the IG

 

[IA1865]

Looks like he was using some version of the new Revic Werkman scope that is coming with Gunwerks new entry level rifle

Werkman Rifle System

More bang. Less bucks. The Werkman rifle offers a premium Gunwerks experience at a lower price.

www.gunwerks.com

No specs on the scope yet other than what is included in their announcement video and pictures: 5-25x56, MOA version of the reticle in that video, 30 MOA turrets, capped windage. I'll talk to them at the Dallas Safari Club convention next weekend and see what details I can get. No idea on reliability, tracking, or weight, but feature set could be interesting in a scaled down version say 3-15x42/44.

 

[Grisha]

No idea on reliability, tracking, or weight, but feature set could be interesting in a scaled down version say 3-15x42/44.

Exactly what I was thinking. For the rifle package overall: scale that thing down and give a few more caliber rifles and that werkman setup starts looking pretty interesting as well.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Not an engineer. So this is what I understand from speaking with people, and from seeing it and thinking about it.

Usually the “1,500 G’s” is just rearward moment. Sometimes the test forward and rearward movement. In any case, none of them to my knowledge are checking the position of the reticle after each movement to determine if it is still “zeroed”. The general thing is they are put in a machine that simulates 375 H&H recoil for instance for 1,000 times, then pull they scope out look, through it making sure the lenses didn’t break, and maybe spinning the turrets and checking that they still work. Then in “testing” they may put it in a rifle and zero it in. What they are basically doing is seeing if the scope just falls apart- not seeing if they hold zero through that. They ARE NOT checking position of the reticle in relation to a target, nor are they receiving forces of a drop.

Another instance is in the Tanget Theta thread, Tk421 posted videos of “The Shaker” test that TT did on their scopes. Like the recoil testers, it looks really impressive. But think about it- how does that simulate anything that happens with a rifle scope? And, they’re hot checckinh whether the erector/reticle is staying in the same position through that shaking.

What none of these “G forces tests”, shaking tests, recoil tests, etc do- is measure and check that the position of the reticle has not changed in relation to the rifle/aiming point; nor do they account for the fact that the rings attach to the tube, nor that with the scope being attached to the rifle by rings in the middle- the end LW’s of the scope (eyepiece and objective) are now floating and will take nearly all the impact of the drop with the middle functionally being locked in place.


Checking whether vibration or shaking will rattle a scope apart, is not the same as checking its ability to hold zero when mounted to a rifle and dropped. It also does not tell you whether a scope will hold zero on a rifle from actually shooting it. If you want to know whether a scope holds zero from firing, you have to mount it in a rifle, zero it, and shoot it for thousands of rounds and check zero constantly. If you want to know whether a scope will hold zero from a drop- you have to mount it to a rifle, zero it and drop it, then check that it held zero.

There’s a reason that Trijicon has started advertising that at least some of their scope designs (hint) are zeroed and shot for 1,000/3,000/5,000 rounds and checked for zero, as well as zeroed on a rifle and dropped to check zero retention- because that is the only way to know.

Are you sure they don’t check zero shift? I get checking to see if it falls apart, but zero shift between shots is the top priorit’s, right?

What I think really hurts these G tests vs vs your drop tests is point loading. The g test is all through the Mount which is clamped to the tube. This is applying the force to the strongest part of the system in the most supported way.

when we drop a scope on its side, turret, bell, eyepiece. We are dropping it n the weakest part of the design. The eyepiece for example has to be threaded and move to fast focus, but we all know cheaper and looser fast focus designs shift zero just moving them. Well, I’m guessing some better designs move when a 15 lb rifle side drops on that point and don’t come back without shooting or something to move it.

Same with dropping on the objective…Wei points exposed to point loads.

im sorry, but optics makers just need to deal with this. It is called hunting. If they only want G forces, just label the box for square range use only, confirm zero before every use!

 

[IA1865]

Looks like he was using some version of the new Revic Werkman scope that is coming with Gunwerks new entry level rifle

Werkman Rifle System

More bang. Less bucks. The Werkman rifle offers a premium Gunwerks experience at a lower price.

www.gunwerks.com

No specs on the scope yet other than what is included in their announcement video and pictures: 5-25x56, MOA version of the reticle in that video, 30 MOA turrets, capped windage. I'll talk to them at the Dallas Safari Club convention next weekend and see what details I can get. No idea on reliability, tracking, or weight, but feature set could be interesting in a scaled down version say 3-15x42/44.

Well, talking to Gunwerks at DSC was a complete bust, unfortunately. The didn't bring the new rifle or scope, and the salespeople hadn't been able to actually put hands on one yet. Weight for the 5-25 comes in around 32oz, with no current plans to a) introduce other versions of the scope (either in a smaller footprint such as a 3-15 or in MILs) and b) sell the scope as a standalone product. So not really sure what Gunwerks is doing over there but it doesn't seem to be a very well thought out strategy.

Other updates from the convention are that GAP will be doing another run of the LRHS2, but it will be a bit over $1k this time around.

The Bushnell rep also indicated that 2024 would see some more hunting focused scope added to the elite tactical line, so hopefully that means a resurrection of the LRTS/LRHS as a production model rather than a limited run. He didn't have any additional details to provide so not going to hold my breath on this one.

 

[Shepman]

I wish they would stop with the exposed windage turrets.

 

[Lytro]

Being color blind, it would be nice if all illuminated reticles had both red and green settings. I can't see the red output at all if it's very sunny or full snow cover.

 

[Shepman]

Seems like that feature is only on the really cheap Chinese made scopes for some reason.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

The market is overrun with features. The stuff Formidilosus listed is "it" for a blueprint.

Should NF go FFP with a THLR reticle and capped windage in the NXS line's 2.5-10 and 3.5-15....or better yet, do a 3-12x42 at ~23 oz, it would be THE scope.

 

[IA1865]

So based on the silence from Tract, these features may not be in the works for anything from them. Would there be enough interest to do something like a run of scopes to spec from LOW?

I think I saw Form at one point had asked about NF putting a version of the THLR reticle in an ATACR, seemed like a hefty upcharge and not something they had too much interest in doing, and most of their scopes are in that 30+ oz weight class. Bushnell seems like they're not interested in this segment in the near term, but what about Trijicon? Some tweaks to the Tenmile could be interesting.

 

[Lytro]

ZCOs have that. So do ATACRs.

I have a Trijicon Tenmile that has it as well.

 

[IA1865]

Gunwerks at least thinking about things in kind of the right way, although the scope is pretty beefy and MOA only. Looks like a MOA version of the THLR reticle pared down a bit.