Milligan Brand Chama, NM

[SoCalHunter]

Just want to say sorry to the OP about how he was swindled.

 

[Laramie]

Ray Milligan is a snake oil salesman...we went Sept 2022 and when we called Ray in 2021 and asked what was the best week...he gave us the 2nd week of September....when we got there ALL of his guides said they do not do very well the 2nd week and that Ray was just "trying to sell hunts." Ray is ALWAYS drunk walking through camp while bragging about how wealthy he is which is very annoying for the hunters to hear over and over. He said he has 100,000 acres to hunt and of the 4 spots we hunted 3 of them were maybe 50-80 acre parcels with rancher fences dividing them. One of the neighboring ranchers actually drove his 4x4 50 yards from me while I was on an evening hunt sitting by a water hole..and did the same thing to another hunter. I texted my guide and he saw this happen through his binoculars and told me to get up and move to where another hunter was (mainly cause the parcel was so small there was not alot of areas for us to spread out.) Ray will falsify his success/opportunity rate and many hunters in camp witnessed him writing on his dry erase board that a hunter got a 4x3 elk when what he killed was a 1x1 spike. He does this so when other hunters come to camp they think there is high success when there is not. This unethical outfitter is only out for your money and could care less about how disgusting the camp is (flies all over the food, spiders and other bugs in the showers, filthy bedding. I feel bad for his staff as they ALL talk poorly about Ray when he is not around but because there are not a lot of jobs in Chama.....they are nice to his face. i would 100% save your money and not hunt with this lying outfitter

I would like to say I'm sorry for your experience but I'm not. His reviews online are poor. A quick google search shows other complaining of similar things. His rating on Bowsite.com is a 2.4... about as low as it gets. Next Hunt has them rated as a 1 out of 5. Other sites also have them rated poorly..

There are also bad reviews on several other forums. Here are some direct quotes I found easily online -

"Hunted with Milligan in 2019 and would not recommend them to anyone. One of the worst hunting outfitters I have ever seen. They are pillaging the resources of NM with little regard for property owners from which they lease property and zero regard for the neighbors property that they do not have leased. I have pictures of trash, broken chairs, and beer cans lying around the pine trees where we were going to ambush elk coming down to graze. No elk of course!!"

"I hunted with Ray in 2019 and quite honestly it may have been the worst hunting experience I’ve ever had."

"I have been on aprox 60 guided hunts and this was one of the most disappointing. My son saved all year to go on this hunt with me and it was nothing but a money-making operation"

"Saw a cow, calf and spike at 700 yards. Saw a couple of lions also at 23 yards. No elk there for archery season. Would be good gun hunt if the snow drove the elk down from the higher grounds. He has some awesome country leased, but the elk are not there in archery season. Really nice guy too. He tried to tell me I stiffed him for the final balance payment after I got back home. After proving he was wrong by showing him when he deposited a certified cashier's check, I never received an apology or heard another word from him, wouldn't even return my phone calls after that!! Sorry, but can't recommend this outfitter for any archery hunt."

"I hunted with Milligan Brand a couple years ago. Didn't kill an elk, but had a couple opportunities. Probably wouldn’t go back."

There are many more bad reviews and quotes - you get the idea and hope you learned your lesson. You aren't alone - he books a ton of hunts every year.

 

[GatorMike]

I would like to say I'm sorry for your experience but I'm not. His reviews online are poor. A quick google search shows other complaining of similar things. His rating on Bowsite.com is a 2.4... about as low as it gets. Next Hunt has them rated as a 1 out of 5. Other sites also have them rated poorly..

There are also bad reviews on several other forums. Here are some direct quotes I found easily online -

"Hunted with Milligan in 2019 and would not recommend them to anyone. One of the worst hunting outfitters I have ever seen. They are pillaging the resources of NM with little regard for property owners from which they lease property and zero regard for the neighbors property that they do not have leased. I have pictures of trash, broken chairs, and beer cans lying around the pine trees where we were going to ambush elk coming down to graze. No elk of course!!"

"I hunted with Ray in 2019 and quite honestly it may have been the worst hunting experience I’ve ever had."

"I have been on aprox 60 guided hunts and this was one of the most disappointing. My son saved all year to go on this hunt with me and it was nothing but a money-making operation"

"Saw a cow, calf and spike at 700 yards. Saw a couple of lions also at 23 yards. No elk there for archery season. Would be good gun hunt if the snow drove the elk down from the higher grounds. He has some awesome country leased, but the elk are not there in archery season. Really nice guy too. He tried to tell me I stiffed him for the final balance payment after I got back home. After proving he was wrong by showing him when he deposited a certified cashier's check, I never received an apology or heard another word from him, wouldn't even return my phone calls after that!! Sorry, but can't recommend this outfitter for any archery hunt."

"I hunted with Milligan Brand a couple years ago. Didn't kill an elk, but had a couple opportunities. Probably wouldn’t go back."

There are many more bad reviews and quotes - you get the idea and hope you learned your lesson. You aren't alone - he books a ton of hunts every year.

I searched several hunting forums, but clearly I do not know as many sites are you are aware of. Please share the other forums so I can better research next time...in a google search all I can find is Hunttalk, Bowsite, hunting.net, Rokslide.....I would appreciate any others you are willing to share.

 

[GatorMike]

Just want to say sorry to the OP about how he was swindled.

Just want to say sorry to the OP about how he was swindled.

Well when you speak to the outfitter on the phone and via text and they state they have 100,000 acres and you get there and they have a small fraction of that amount....when they tell you they have 100% opportunity and they do not (especially in bow season)....when they post pictures of Massive Bulls and after speaking to their guides they all say the photos are not bulls taken from their properties that we would be hunting....I could list more...but yes...I would call that blatantly lying, false advertising, and yes...swindling....hope this answered your question.

 

[Laramie]

I searched several hunting forums, but clearly I do not know as many sites are you are aware of. Please share the other forums so I can better research next time...in a google search all I can find is Hunttalk, Bowsite, hunting.net, Rokslide.....I would appreciate any others you are willing to share.

Just simply google outfitter name and reviews. Search past the first page to see results that they aren't paying for. I found your review during my 5 minute search as well as many others. Even on Bowsite the writing was on the wall... the first review on there "Also in between the morning and afternoon hunts at least half the guides would drink beer non stop until the afternoon hunt. Stay away from this guy he is just out to put your money in his bank."

You will find plenty of good reviews because he has been around so long. However the warning signs were there, especially regarding the archery hunts.

 

[SoCalHunter]

I would like to say I'm sorry for your experience but I'm not. His reviews online are poor. A quick google search shows other complaining of similar things. His rating on Bowsite.com is a 2.4... about as low as it gets. Next Hunt has them rated as a 1 out of 5. Other sites also have them rated poorly..

There are also bad reviews on several other forums. Here are some direct quotes I found easily online -

"Hunted with Milligan in 2019 and would not recommend them to anyone. One of the worst hunting outfitters I have ever seen. They are pillaging the resources of NM with little regard for property owners from which they lease property and zero regard for the neighbors property that they do not have leased. I have pictures of trash, broken chairs, and beer cans lying around the pine trees where we were going to ambush elk coming down to graze. No elk of course!!"

"I hunted with Ray in 2019 and quite honestly it may have been the worst hunting experience I’ve ever had."

"I have been on aprox 60 guided hunts and this was one of the most disappointing. My son saved all year to go on this hunt with me and it was nothing but a money-making operation"

"Saw a cow, calf and spike at 700 yards. Saw a couple of lions also at 23 yards. No elk there for archery season. Would be good gun hunt if the snow drove the elk down from the higher grounds. He has some awesome country leased, but the elk are not there in archery season. Really nice guy too. He tried to tell me I stiffed him for the final balance payment after I got back home. After proving he was wrong by showing him when he deposited a certified cashier's check, I never received an apology or heard another word from him, wouldn't even return my phone calls after that!! Sorry, but can't recommend this outfitter for any archery hunt."

"I hunted with Milligan Brand a couple years ago. Didn't kill an elk, but had a couple opportunities. Probably wouldn’t go back."

There are many more bad reviews and quotes - you get the idea and hope you learned your lesson. You aren't alone - he books a ton of hunts every year.

You can feel for a guy that tried to get a hunt and made a mistake just the same as if he had no chance to know who he was dealing with.

Even if he did not research enough you can still feel bad for him. He did not deserve that no matter what.

 

[Outlaw99]

Ray used to be a big time trapper/ lure maker……..USED to be….

 

[Laramie]

You can feel for a guy that tried to get a hunt and made a mistake just the same as if he had no chance to know who he was dealing with.

Even if he did not research enough you can still feel bad for him. He did not deserve that no matter what.

I get where you are coming from. My frustration comes from the vast number of people that choose to not do research for things they spend money on. I just don't feel sorry for them.

To the OP, I'm sure you are a nice guy and I'm guessing you learned your lesson. I hope you have great hunts in the future.

 

[NMElkHunter1776]

Ray Milligan is a snake oil salesman...we went Sept 2022 and when we called Ray in 2021 and asked what was the best week...he gave us the 2nd week of September....when we got there ALL of his guides said they do not do very well the 2nd week and that Ray was just "trying to sell hunts." Ray is ALWAYS drunk walking through camp while bragging about how wealthy he is which is very annoying for the hunters to hear over and over. He said he has 100,000 acres to hunt and of the 4 spots we hunted 3 of them were maybe 50-80 acre parcels with rancher fences dividing them. One of the neighboring ranchers actually drove his 4x4 50 yards from me while I was on an evening hunt sitting by a water hole..and did the same thing to another hunter. I texted my guide and he saw this happen through his binoculars and told me to get up and move to where another hunter was (mainly cause the parcel was so small there was not alot of areas for us to spread out.) Ray will falsify his success/opportunity rate and many hunters in camp witnessed him writing on his dry erase board that a hunter got a 4x3 elk when what he killed was a 1x1 spike. He does this so when other hunters come to camp they think there is high success when there is not. This unethical outfitter is only out for your money and could care less about how disgusting the camp is (flies all over the food, spiders and other bugs in the showers, filthy bedding. I feel bad for his staff as they ALL talk poorly about Ray when he is not around but because there are not a lot of jobs in Chama.....they are nice to his face. i would 100% save your money and not hunt with this lying outfitter

Let me start this off by saying I don’t normally write reviews but this one is warranted. To be very clear, Ray is an arrogant a$$hole who only cares about getting your money and making sure his higher end clientele are taken care of, where us average/new guys get the short end of the stick. Next, let’s talk tipping, (and I have all the original documents, contracts, etc. saved). We looked at the tipping guidelines emailed to us beforehand and it said in writing that “Tips generally run $500-$1000 from a hunter to his guide. Also, the chef averages $125 per client. Our Camp jack is often tipped $25.” I went on a 2x1 Elk hunt and my buddy and I each left $600 in tip to the guide, $150 to the chef and $25 to the camp jack. We are not millionaires but thought we received good service so we tipped accordingly, per the guidelines we were sent. As we were leaving, we got a text from Ray saying “YOU AND (MY FRIEND) ARE NO LONGER ALLOWED TO COME BACK AND HUNT WITH US. DO NOT CALL US AND DO NOT TEXT US. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE ANYMORE.” Are you kidding me?! That text was sent to me on our drive home across the country without any context or any reason why. Who the hell does that?! My friend and I were perfectly good clients, did nothing wrong, did not act crazy or drunk, said nothing offensive, stuck to the rules and followed all orders so what the heck did we do to deserve that type of treatment?! Did we not tip enough based on Ray’s guidelines?! Do yourself a favor and avoid this prick and his company at all costs. He is not worth your trouble, hard earned money, or time. Now to the review, in case you are still interested…

My friend and I were on a 2x1 guided elk hunt and were told we had over 10,000+ acres or more of high-country land to hunt on. Sounds great right? Well, every single morning we went to the same exact spot and saw nothing and maybe heard a bugle or two very far out. Our morning hunt (with the walk included) lasted for about 3 hours, then we came back to the camp, took a nap/had a snack, and went back out in the late afternoon for another 3 hours. Then we came back, ate dinner, and had some drinks. My buddy and I were ready to hunt all day considering we spent almost $9,000 each to make this trip happen and all we got was 4-6 hours a day with A LOT of downtime. Now don’t get me wrong, the wilderness was very nice and the chef was excellent but the guides were basically drunk all day and night drinking beers and slugging crown royal in between hunts and late night. The bunk cabins we stayed in were nothing special and the limited number of elk we saw were mostly spikes and young 3x3 or 4x4. We ended up getting a young 4x4 bull and a 3x4 on the 4th day because we wanted meat. Ironically enough, I got my bull on my own in between hunts during “down time” because I wanted to hunt more so the guide said “Go in that direction” which I did, I sat for an hour and got my shot. After experiencing this hunt and doing my own research on other guide services for the future I would rate Milligan Brand 1 star out of 5 at best, and 1 star just because we liked the chef. Avoid this company and go with someone else!

 

[scummings35]

I feel the need to publicly put this out there considering how leery I was about my first 2x1 elk hunt I had booked with MBO 11/28-12/2, 2023. My dad booked the trip and like it has been said before, Ray has been around for 30+ years and there are around 5 negative reviews, so we went with it. Upon arrival to river camp, I was greeted by the guides, chef, camp jack, and Ray almost immediately as well as a group of 4 that have no affiliation with Ray other than hunting with his outfit and they were back for the 5th time. That was a sigh of relief for me considering the posts in this thread.

I am not one to want a lot of attention or post reviews like this, but every review in this thread is 100% opposite of the experience I had so I felt the need to post. Not saying that you are all wrong, but a very different experience than the one my dad and I had. It was obvious from the beginning that this was going to be a good trip. Ray and his crew were very personable and professional from the safety meeting, to sleeping arrangements, to the meals, and to the guided hunts. All was consistent throughout the week. Big Ben was our chef and he was extremely grateful to be there. Every meal and dessert was 1st class. Juan, the camp jack, was the same and there to help with our every need. I hung out with the guides while they were at the cabin whether eating dinner, playing cards, or just shooting the breeze. There was no excessive drinking or partying whatsoever. Those guides work hard for tips and are out to help you succeed no matter what. My guide was Jaime who I had a blast with. He was like a long lost buddy from the get-go and was probably even more excited about my 5x5 than I was.

If you are reading this post deciding whether to book with MBO, don't let 5 or so negative review out of 12,000+ hunts steer you away. Like I said, we had a great time and plan to go back. Please reach out if you have any specific questions as I am happy to answer.

SC

 

[TX_Diver]

That's two first posts in the last month to post good reviews about NM outfitters who have historically had bad reputations. Not saying people don't have good experiences with outfitters who others don't like, but it's interesting and always makes me skeptical when it's someone's first post.

Any pics you can share from your hunt?

 

[scummings35]

I understand the skepticism because it was literally my first post and I don’t plan on posting a lot as it is. This was the main forum I found when researching Milligan after my dad had surprised me with the booking. Like I said in my previous post, I was very leery and a little worried about spending a lot of money likely for a letdown. I’m not sure of Ray or MBO’s past, I can only speak to my recent experience. Maybe his team made the necessary adjustments or maybe it’s always been good with a few bad eggs…I’m not sure.

On to the fun stuff. We spotted a lone bull across a valley at 1200 yards. Being my first time hunting out west, I didn’t have super fancy optics so he looked small at that distance but I knew he was still a shooter for me. He ended up browsing through the trees until I made my shot at 138 yards on this 5x5. It was a blast!

 

[GatorMike]

I feel the need to publicly put this out there considering how leery I was about my first 2x1 elk hunt I had booked with MBO 11/28-12/2, 2023. My dad booked the trip and like it has been said before, Ray has been around for 30+ years and there are around 5 negative reviews, so we went with it. Upon arrival to river camp, I was greeted by the guides, chef, camp jack, and Ray almost immediately as well as a group of 4 that have no affiliation with Ray other than hunting with his outfit and they were back for the 5th time. That was a sigh of relief for me considering the posts in this thread.

I am not one to want a lot of attention or post reviews like this, but every review in this thread is 100% opposite of the experience I had so I felt the need to post. Not saying that you are all wrong, but a very different experience than the one my dad and I had. It was obvious from the beginning that this was going to be a good trip. Ray and his crew were very personable and professional from the safety meeting, to sleeping arrangements, to the meals, and to the guided hunts. All was consistent throughout the week. Big Ben was our chef and he was extremely grateful to be there. Every meal and dessert was 1st class. Juan, the camp jack, was the same and there to help with our every need. I hung out with the guides while they were at the cabin whether eating dinner, playing cards, or just shooting the breeze. There was no excessive drinking or partying whatsoever. Those guides work hard for tips and are out to help you succeed no matter what. My guide was Jaime who I had a blast with. He was like a long lost buddy from the get-go and was probably even more excited about my 5x5 than I was.

If you are reading this post deciding whether to book with MBO, don't let 5 or so negative review out of 12,000+ hunts steer you away. Like I said, we had a great time and plan to go back. Please reach out if you have any specific questions as I am happy to answer.

SC

Glad you had a better experience. With that said, I find it hard to believe that none of them were drunk while you were there as literally every morning, afternoon, during hunts, and at night they all drank crown royal and other alcohol all day long as other hunters experienced and shared in this thread. The camp cook Ben was one of the nicest guys and if you spoke to him, you would hear how poorly Ray treats him and the others (including the guides) I am glad you got a bull which is VERY rare in his camp. I am curious what camp you were at as there is one that is on a dirt road and another that is closer to the Colorado border and supposedly is much nicer. Either way, the way Ray treats people is disgusting, the way he lies about how much acreage he leases is fraud, and for what he charges there are much better outfitters with much better elk hunting available. Once again...congrats on the bull.

 

[scummings35]

I hate that was your experience. I stayed at the River Camp which is just south of Chama close to the border only a nice little stream. I can assure you no guide was drunk during my stay and only cracked a beer or 2 during the evenings at dinner. I really enjoyed my time with them. Our camp harvested the following 4x5, 5x5, 5x5, 5x5, 6x6, 4x4 and I’m unsure of what the last 2 hunters got as I left a day early. The 6x6 was a nice one (blocked the man’s face for his privacy)

 

[GatorMike]

I hate that was your experience. I stayed at the River Camp which is just south of Chama close to the border only a nice little stream. I can assure you no guide was drunk during my stay and only cracked a beer or 2 during the evenings at dinner. I really enjoyed my time with them. Our camp harvested the following 4x5, 5x5, 5x5, 5x5, 6x6, 4x4 and I’m unsure of what the last 2 hunters got as I left a day early. The 6x6 was a nice one (blocked the man’s face for his privacy)View attachment 637354

Thanks for the reply...glad you had a good experience...I can tell you what you experienced is not the norm at that outfitter. Best of luck on future hunts!

 

[MuskieMan1]

Just simply google outfitter name and reviews. Search past the first page to see results that they aren't paying for. I found your review during my 5 minute search as well as many others. Even on Bowsite the writing was on the wall... the first review on there "Also in between the morning and afternoon hunts at least half the guides would drink beer non stop until the afternoon hunt. Stay away from this guy he is just out to put your money in his bank."

You will find plenty of good reviews because he has been around so long. However the warning signs were there, especially regarding the archery hunts.

I would respectfully disagree. I have hunted with Milligan Brand for 13 years now....bowhunts and now rifle. It's comfortable, good leases, great guides ,great food and fun. The camp atmosphere and the other hunters in camp have been great. Lots of hunters that come there every year so have made plenty of friends that I look forward to seeing each year. If you're looking for a Ritz Carlton hunt or a white linen table cloth , business casual Vermeho hunt then keep looking but the Milligan accomodations are comfortable, and welcoming. For six years in a row now it's been 100% opportunities in rifle camp. They know Elk and they have the leases ....and I have not been witness to the negative things some have mentioned. Ray Milligan runs a business ,yes ...but he likes his hunters to succeed and he is good by me! Just my opinion based on my experiences with The Brand over the past 13 years. Check out the recent testimonials!

 

[TimberRunner]

I did my 2nd guided hunt with them in covid year, 2020. I had killed 5 elk at that point, hadn't pulled a tag that year and was really wanting to elk hunt that fall.

Booked a hunt late in the year and killed a nice 5x5, dark antlers, big bodied bull on the 3rd morning. Guides were great, cook was excellent. There were 3 others hunters in camp, one wanted to kill a 6 point and despite opportunities, didn't see a bull he wanted to kill. Other two killed smaller bulls, but seemed happy with hunts.

I'd say 4.5 stars. We had a lot of ground to hunt and there were a lot of elk, although it was late season. Not my typical hunt style, but was super happy with my bull and the guides seemed good to me, albeit, my experience with guides is limited. Stayed a day and a half after my bull was killed and had a good experience.

I didn't spend much time around Ray, just met him for a bit at the beginning, but he wasn't off putting.

 

[Short Track]

I wouldn't risk it after reading this. I'd go with a known good outfitter.