MIL or MOA

[El General]

I am starting to stretch out my shooting a bit and starting at zero more or less. My goal is to shoot pigs and steel out to 1000 yards or so, but likely to keep it to 600 for the time being based on local range limitations and my own personal skill.

So, if you are starting out and don't have a bunch of experience with either, would you use the MIL or MOA system and why?

Thanks,

EG

 

[FURMAN]

Moa because it’s more precise.


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[Ryan Avery]

While I prefer MOA it really doesn’t matter. Pick one and learn to use it.

One thing I do like about Mils is the lower number for my simple brain to remember and it just gets worse after 1000 yards.

1000 yards = 5 to 6 something Mils

1000 yards = 19 to 20 something MOA


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[Stid2677]

I prefer MOA, but as Ryan said pick one and stick with it. You will find many more products in MIL, as this is the military standard. My mind and non mathability (is that a word) thinks in MOA, so I like that better. No right or wrong.

 

[Formidilosus]

I am starting to stretch out my shooting a bit and starting at zero more or less. My goal is to shoot pigs and steel out to 1000 yards or so, but likely to keep it to 600 for the time being based on local range limitations and my own personal skill.

So, if you are starting out and don't have a bunch of experience with either, would you use the MIL or MOA system and why?

Thanks,

EG

Mil. 100%

I work with 40-50 shooters a year they are either new at long range shooting or used to MOA. Mil is faster and easier to teach, works great with wind brackets, faster and easier to make wind calls and corrections, is easier to remember dope, and is pretty easy to make the reticle act like a BDC.

I have ave never had anyone want to go back to MOA after learning mils correctly.

Moa because it’s more precise.

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Please tell me this his was a joke.

 

[2five7]

MOA for me, but only because of 20 years of carpentry my brain just computes inches and feet on it's own, so much easier for me remember.

I think the "more precise" statement is in comparing .1 mil clicks to .25 moa clicks, as .1 mil is about .36" I think.

 

[FURMAN]

Mil. 100%

I work with 40-50 shooters a year they are either new at long range shooting or used to MOA. Mil is faster and easier to teach, works great with wind brackets, faster and easier to make wind calls and corrections, is easier to remember dope, and is pretty easy to make the reticle act like a BDC.

I have ave never had anyone want to go back to MOA after learning mils correctly.









Please tell me this his was a joke.

It is simple math .25 moa =.25moa. .1 mil = roughly .33 moa

More precise, pretty simple how that works. No joking with math. Black and white.

Its great you prefer MILs. I do agree with Avery. Pick one and learn it. I will stick with MOA.

 

[Bubblehide]

It is simple math .25 moa =.25moa. .1 mil = roughly .33 moa

More precise, pretty simple how that works. No joking with math. Black and white.

Its great you prefer MILs. I do agree with Avery. Pick one and learn it. I will stick with MOA.

If your really good at math and fractions, yes go MOA. Otherwise go with 10ths, MIL

My head will do both, but it doesn't like switching.

 

[UtahJimmy]

Do you think in Metric or English units? What units does your shooting partner(s) think in?

MOA = English
Mils = Metric

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[BULLBLASTER]

It doesn’t make any difference either way. They are both units of angle measurement nothing more. Just one based on degrees and the other on radians. It’s best to completely disconnect them from any unit of length and use it for what it is as an angle measure. Doesn’t need to have anything to do with inches or meters or anything else.
My scopes are moa but I can function either way

Smaller numbers for mils sure but I don’t buy that it is any easier. I don’t try and remember any of my dope as I just dial to what my rangefinder or calculator spits out and shoot. Just as easy to turn the dial to 12.75 as it is to dial it to 3.6.

 

[Ryan Avery]

It doesn’t make any difference either way. They are both units of angle measurement nothing more. Just one based on degrees and the other on radians. It’s best to completely disconnect them from any unit of length and use it for what it is as an angle measure. Doesn’t need to have anything to do with inches or meters or anything else.
My scopes are moa but I can function either way

Smaller numbers for mils sure but I don’t buy that it is any easier. I don’t try and remember any of my dope as I just dial to what my rangefinder or calculator spits out and shoot. Just as easy to turn the dial to 12.75 as it is to dial it to 3.6.

You don’t have to buy it. But under stress it’s good to know I’m in the ball park and didn’t eff up an input. Because if you shoot enough it will happen.




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[NMO]

We ran a pretty comprehensive article on this awhile back, written by Caylen Wojcik. He does re-iterate what Ryan stated about choosing one and sticking with it.
Mils vs MOA, By Caylen Wojcik - Journal of Mountain Hunting

 

[Formidilosus]

It is simple math .25 moa =.25moa. .1 mil = roughly .33 moa

More precise, pretty simple how that works. No joking with math. Black and white.


Its great you prefer MILs. I do agree with Avery. Pick one and learn it. I will stick with MOA.

Don’t double down on silliness....




So the most that one could be off with .25 MOA adjustments is half= .125 MOA. With .1mil (.34moa) the maximum error is again, half= .18 MOA.




So youre telling me that you can tell and use the difference of .055 MOA? Half an inch at 1000 yards maximum error difference?

Smaller numbers for mils sure but I don’t buy that it is any easier. I don’t try and remember any of my dope as I just dial to what my rangefinder or calculator spits out and shoot. Just as easy to turn the dial to 12.75 as it is to dial it to 3.6.

Buy it or not. I’m not the guy that gets emotionally attached to something because I like it. I hated mils and thought the military going to mils was stupid. I was wrong. Several hundred students later it is a pure 100% fact that people pick up and learn the mil system on scopes faster and with less headache than MOA. A not inconsequential reason is that people let go of trying to equate an angular measurement with a linear one easier with mils.




Anyone one that says either is better because it matches “inches/centimeters” instantly lets you know that regardless of what they do, they do not understand how to use either optimally (correctly).








If someone likes one over the other- cool. You do you. But there is an objective difference. Large numbers of shooters, with varying skill level, being taught both correctly, the shooters using/learning mils will pick it up faster and be better in the full range of conditions in less time.

 

[FURMAN]

Don’t double down on silliness....




So the most that one could be off with .25 MOA adjustments is half= .125 MOA. With .1mil (.34moa) the maximum error is again, half= .18 MOA.




So youre telling me that you can tell and use the difference of .055 MOA? Half an inch at 1000 yards maximum error difference?























Buy it or not. I’m not the guy that gets emotionally attached to something because I like it. I hated mils and thought the military going to mils was stupid. I was wrong. Several hundred students later it is a pure 100% fact that people pick up and learn the mil system on scopes faster and with less headache than MOA. A not inconsequential reason is that people let go of trying to equate an angular measurement with a linear one easier with mils.




Anyone one that says either is better because it matches “inches/centimeters” instantly lets you know that regardless of what they do, they do not understand how to use either optimally (correctly).








If someone likes one over the other- cool. You do you. But there is an objective difference. Large numbers of shooters, with varying skill level, being taught both correctly, the shooters using/learning mils will pick it up faster and be better in the full range of conditions in less time.

Dude, we get it you are in love with MIL. I guess we should all shoot grandpas 30-06s with MIL reticles because, hey we can't be that precise anyways. I stated That I prefer MOA the OP wanted reasoning I gave it. I could not care less if you don't like my reasoning. You are not going to change my mind after shooting thousands of rounds with ea. Why can you not just answer the OPs question with your preference and reason and move on? At this point you and I are adding nothing to his thread. I am out. Sorry to the OP.

 

[BULLBLASTER]

It doesn’t make any difference either way. They are both units of angle measurement nothing more. Just one based on degrees and the other on radians. It’s best to completely disconnect them from any unit of length and use it for what it is as an angle measure. Doesn’t need to have anything to do with inches or meters or anything else.
My scopes are moa but I can function either way

Smaller numbers for mils sure but I don’t buy that it is any easier. I don’t try and remember any of my dope as I just dial to what my rangefinder or calculator spits out and shoot. Just as easy to turn the dial to 12.75 as it is to dial it to 3.6.

It got me last year on a mule deer. Had my range finder set to a buddy’s rifle and shot 2 moa high. That brain fart wouldn’t a been fixed any better with mils tho. Haha. Garbage in and garbage out

 

[huntsman22]

How do you set a rangefinder to a rifle?

 

[Bubblehide]

How do you set a rangefinder to a rifle?

The high end long range range finders have a built in program that can be adjusted to a specific load/trajectory.

 

[luke moffat]

I started with MOA and switched to MILs. Mainly cause like Ryan Avery said my pea brain works better with smaller numbers. Wind brackets are easier to work with for me in MILs. Then there is me never having to do rounding on the fly. Computer spits out 12.6 MOA do I go 12.5 or 12.75? Gasp inducing error either way? By contrast the calc spits out 3.6....I simply dial 3.6.

Another reason is you can generally shoot further per rev on MIL scopes than an MOA of the same make and model. So less chances to get lost. Yes zero stops help certainly but unless you have an expensive scope,like a NF ATACR with 30 MOA per rev (again the Mil version of that scope is 12 MIL per turn or over 41 MOA equivalent adjustment per rev than its 30 MOA counterpart), most of us will be going beyond one rev of the turret to reach 1000 yards.

What likely opened my eyes to this was the NF 4-14 SHV. When shooting a MIL and MOA version side by side with similar cartridges. The 10 MOA per rev SHV goes beyond one rev after 475 yards on the 308s we were shooting. The 5 MIL per rev version of the same scope on the same 308 goes beyond one rev at 660....which ironically at that distance the MOA version is nearly 3/4 of the way through its second rev of the turret. For me I am far more likely to get lost in revs going to different targets and not coming back to zero and back up than I am to be able to take advantage of the more "precise" 1/4 per click than .1 mil per click......not that I've EVER been a rev off when shooting before, I just heard about a guy doing it once

Finally there are much more products in MILs and general buying used its much easier I have found to pick up deals on MILs scope opposed to MOA, yes you can get deals on both but this has been my experience I have noticed generally.

I know I can’t shoot the difference in accuracy between the precision of MOA TO MILs (1/2” at 1k yards as mentioned). Either works fine and I have had success (and mistakes while learning) with both but I don’t see going back to MOA after trying MILs now. Pick one and roll with it.

 

[Wrongside]

Shot in MOA all my life. Picked up my first MIL scope a couple years ago. By the end of the day I knew there was no going back for me.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Shot in MOA all my life. Picked up my first MIL scope a couple years ago. By the end of the day I knew there was no going back for me.

Bingo. Was moa forever. Went to mils this year and it's been spectacular. Super easy to understand and for me, it's just plain simpler.


Randy