might get laughed at but thats ok....handgun for Griz

[FLAK]

45 Super. 255gr. hardcast Buffalo Bore.

 

[Bm22]

I wonder if a little "too much" is made of this shooting under distress phenomenon possibly? To me it seems as though the human mind/body is hardwired to deal with just this kind of threat. This is where the primitive brain is at its best...singular focus on an immediate threat with everything else being blocked out. It's where people get tunnel vision, extreme focus, and things seem to slow down. That is perfect for someone with a pistol to defend themself from a single threat that requires one simple response in order to be neutralized (assuming you have some basic proficiency with the pistol, the pistol is in a simple easy to draw from holster and doesn't have a bunch of external safeties, and you have the appropriate ammunition).

Someone in law enforcement can correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that all of the training in law enforcement and the military is conditioning and repitition in order to allow you to focus all while your higher brain continues to function as well and makes determinations like good guy v.s. bad guy, when to move to cover, complex behaviors like moving and firing simultaneously, awareness of surroundings and potential collateral damage, etc.

I am not a great shot at all, but feel pretty confident based upon my life experiences (including but not limited to a run-in once with a female black bear with really young cubs and a charging lion once) that I would have a very high likelihood of firing accurately at a charging grizzly...much more accurate likely than when distracted by friends trying to make me laugh while shooting sporting clays, etc.

You would be wrong. Under stress you lose your small motor function. There are many cops and citizens reported being unable to take a gun off safety in shooting instances. That’s one reason glocks are so popular, squeeze and go.

Generally speaking your groups double or triple when shot under extreme stress.

So if you shoot 10 shots in 10 seconds ina 10in group at 10 yards, your group will easily be 20-30 inches.

When you train and shoot 2-3 in group at 10 yards it only goes to a 10 inch group under extreme stress.

 

[Rick Leathley]

Glad you've had good experience with our G20. Which ammo do you run?

I read on CalGuns.net a user who had mixed reliability with ammo on their G20 10mm. He referenced 200 Grain XTP as being the only ammo that didn't give them problems.

Shooting non-hollows is preferred and makes me want to pay more for a Sig, Kimber, or Armscor model.

My G20 with a stock barrel has not had any problem with any ammo I have ran through it.

I have shot hard cast and a few different full power loads with out a hitch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[super]

OP no one is gonna laugh at you, a back up hunting gun is serious business. i have hunted brownies with 44mag and .357. both are excellent for bears and with the right bullet placement. it will go down

 

[Beendare]

I will check the book out, and am sure that I will find it interesting. Thanks.

I still think a little too much fear is placed into this shooting a pistol at short distance under distress being this hard to obtain skill. Shooting a pistol at something at 7 yards when not under stress is certainly not a very complex skill. ....

^ From your comments, I can't decide whether your are a retired Navy Seal with icewater in his veins....or a clueless keyboard commander /grin

Its true....we are all somewhere in between the two above.

The reason why training is so important is to counter the way our minds ...and our emotions work. when we see something strange in our everyday lives, our minds gauge it against other things we have seen/done/experienced. This pause while our brain does its thing can cost us dearly if we only have a split second to react.

We aren't hardwired to react quickly in strange situations...but to cross check and analyze it first.

_______

Interesting stat for you since you mentioned the layup "7 yd shot"

I took a pistol class with some really experienced guys 3 decades ago. They gave us the stats ...then proceeded to tell us the "Why". The avg police gunfight in the US at that time was something like 15'. Now with your reasoning..... cops would be almost 100% at that distance, right?

Wrong, The actual hits in a police gunfight were 17% at the time. Less than 1 in 5 bullets hit their target.
Now with better TRAINING..../grin......that percentage has gone up.

I think the point some of us are making here is;
Big difference between us talking tough on a keyboard vs actually having a bear the size of a VW beetle charging us...or getting shot at. Its all good Mike...let me know what you think of that book.

 

[JohnnyB]

The mythology surrounding handguns in defensive situations is curious. From the small motor skill loss to the 10 second draw from concealment and all the semis jamming while the revolvers never jam but you can’t hit anything or follow up shots, the internet would run twice as fast without all these fun threads. They never get old and they will never stop because people loves guns more than shooting.

If you can’t draw and hit at 10 yards in a second or so, try practicing for 5-10 minutes a night (dry fire, no ammo). Most anyone will get there in a month or two. You may find that your gun handling skills become subconscious so that your only focus is the situation at hand and the decision to shoot or not.

My rifle skills are below par fo the same reason most are wary of using a handgun, I only shoot my rifle 50-100 rounds a year. I do shoot between 15 and 20 thousand rounds out of my Glock 19 and another 500 or so out of my Glock 20 every year. Most all the skills developed to become competent with a handgun happened during the first few months of dry fire. The rest was to get better at competition.

If you want to carry a handgun for bears or people, spend a few minutes each night and you won’t need to fret too much over caliber or platform.

Thinking about this further, I carry bear spray as well as a pistol. I doubt I could get the spray up and ready in 10seconds. I better spend some time on the spray or just leave it behind.

 

[Kevin Dill]

It's one thing to practice our skills under relatively controlled conditions. The elements of surprise and shock do not contribute to better accuracy. The brain is reacting to something it's not familiar with in the case of a full-on grizzly charge into shooting range. Massive adrenaline dump....fight-or-flight response....understanding our life is threatened. We ALL know there is no way to regularly simulate those internal events in practice. So we practice the physical and mental part of the self-defense plan...minus the emotional context of being under real threat of death. It's all we can do to get ready.

Is there fear? Does that matter? How would anyone know until they've got a big bear at spitting range? To a great extent it doesn't matter how one feels...it matters how one performs. The more you practice under conditions of fear and stress, the better and more predictable your performance will be when it's needed in reality. Ask any military man or SWAT team member.

'Which sidearm and load' will hopefully always be debated. It's a great discussion and there is never complete agreement. Many (guns and loads) will dispatch a bear. I think choosing the right one...the best one for YOU...should be based on your ability to use it skillfully in a life-or-death situation. Some guys might be better off with a lighter gun or even spray.