Mid-Layer Shootout Review ***Updated 2/18/23***

[woods89]

Thorough review, as usual with @mtwarden !

 

[Farmerlentz]

Thanks for a great thorough review. Nice to see all these jackets compared like this.

 

[Rufus]

Thank you for this. I really appreciate the work you put into this comparison.
-Rufus

 

[MT_Wyatt]

@mtwarden nicely done sir. The wide temp range on the ambient is no joke, so it’s not surprising to read you found the same. The origin surprises me a bit and shows the value of the review process you did. I’m also surprised on the moisture retention on the cirque light, but as you said, that’s almost a hybrid puffy/fleece where the others are straight mid-layers.

Having that contrast of construction approaches included really helps differentiate each one with testing you did. I agree with @Justin Crossley there isn’t a comparable review out there. Good on you guys for putting this together. The manufacturers that didn’t participate really missed out!

I’ve personally found the ambient has pretty well taken over from straight fleece for me. If I hadn’t gotten it on discount I probably wouldn’t be saying that though….

 

[Texasbuckeye]

Awesome review @mtwarden very well done.

I was looking forward to the wet test as i had never heard of such a thing before. While not comfortable for you to do X4, it shows a lot. Kudos to you for toughing that out. Frost on the forearms does not sound fun.

As a point of reference, i have found my ambient hoody to he wind resistant to about 12-13 mph, under that i feel no bleed thru. I wonder if being soaked under makes that more noticeable. Don’t think i will try that tho, but we rarely have temps that low in Texas.

Well done sir!

 

[mtwarden]

Thanks Guys!

@mtwarden nicely done sir. The wide temp range on the ambient is no joke, so it’s not surprising to read you found the same. The origin surprises me a bit and shows the value of the review process you did. I’m also surprised on the moisture retention on the cirque light, but as you said, that’s almost a hybrid puffy/fleece where the others are straight mid-layers.

Having that contrast of construction approaches included really helps differentiate each one with testing you did. I agree with @Justin Crossley there isn’t a comparable review out there. Good on you guys for putting this together. The manufacturers that didn’t participate really missed out!

I’ve personally found the ambient has pretty well taken over from straight fleece for me. If I hadn’t gotten it on discount I probably wouldn’t be saying that though….

yeah the Origin was a bit of a surprise for me as well, did good across the board!; The Cirque Lite does fall into a little different category imho- a little less active layer, a little more insulating layer; I can't put my finger on it exactly, but the Evolve/Direct inner fabric feels so good wearing it- maybe like that old favorite fuzzy sweater

Awesome review @mtwarden very well done.

I was looking forward to the wet test as i had never heard of such a thing before. While not comfortable for you to do X4, it shows a lot. Kudos to you for toughing that out. Frost on the forearms does not sound fun.

As a point of reference, i have found my ambient hoody to he wind resistant to about 12-13 mph, under that i feel no bleed thru. I wonder if being soaked under makes that more noticeable. Don’t think i will try that tho, but we rarely have temps that low in Texas.

Well done sir!

^ with being fully soaked underneath it definitely lets you feel wind more than you would dry; I'd agree that under normal circumstances I don't really feel wind on the Ambient until +/- 10 mph.

 

[aubrian95]

Mlx mdwi hoody for me. Works great. 30d nylon is perfect


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[mtwarden]

Mlx mdwi hoody for me. Works great. 30d nylon is perfect


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yup- that's a good one too

https://www.rokslide.com/sitka-arrowhead-equipment-mdwi-hoody-review/

 

[prm]

Well done, thanks! I especially enjoyed the moisture movement part. This also reinforces just how many really good alternatives we have. I’m going to have to try some similar test on my local mountain. See how my different options of gear perform. Also, we ought to be able to come up with a standard way to rate wind resistance. I find that can really expand the range of a piece.

A note on scoring. I noted that you did not tally the scores for a rating, which is good. This comment is aimed at other reviews that do sum the scores. It just came to my mind now and is for the RS bosses for future consideration. I work with real ops analysts evaluating systems, capabilities, and requirements. One thing the real math guys always stress is the need to separate a grade for performance from a grade of importance. In other words, an 8 for fit may not count the same as an 8 for warmth (example). Hunting in Oregon perhaps weighs water resistance higher than someone hunting in Arizona. For each person, and situation the weights can vary, but that allows a true scoring. If you have 100% score to dole out, what percentage do you give each element. Or put another way, how important is each criteria relative to the others. For our case, it would be valuable to see how experienced reviewers rate the importance of each category. Food for thought.

 

[BrodieBC]

Awesome review. I was originally sold on a Sitka Ambient this season until I found out the the jacket didnt have a hood and the hoody wasnt a full zip. I ended up ordering a Cirque Lite. Waiting for it to arrive but pretty happy with all the rest of my SG apparel and after reading the review I think it will work perfectly up here in Northern BC.

 

[mtwarden]

Danke Guys!

Well done, thanks! I especially enjoyed the moisture movement part. This also reinforces just how many really good alternatives we have. I’m going to have to try some similar test on my local mountain. See how my different options of gear perform. Also, we ought to be able to come up with a standard way to rate wind resistance. I find that can really expand the range of a piece.

A note on scoring. I noted that you did not tally the scores for a rating, which is good. This comment is aimed at other reviews that do sum the scores. It just came to my mind now and is for the RS bosses for future consideration. I work with real ops analysts evaluating systems, capabilities, and requirements. One thing the real math guys always stress is the need to separate a grade for performance from a grade of importance. In other words, an 8 for fit may not count the same as an 8 for warmth (example). Hunting in Oregon perhaps weighs water resistance higher than someone hunting in Arizona. For each person, and situation the weights can vary, but that allows a true scoring. If you have 100% score to dole out, what percentage do you give each element. Or put another way, how important is each criteria relative to the others. For our case, it would be valuable to see how experienced reviewers rate the importance of each category. Food for thought.

There are definitely instruments that accurately measure permeability ( expressed in cfm) for garments, but tend to be a little spendy I had a very good idea being able to compare pieces on which one was more/less wind resistant, but putting actual numbers to them- could not.

I agree wholly on scoring. I did not want to add up numbers because I don't think it would have been overly useful- comparing numbers between garments in a category, more useful. I think the discussion of comparing/contrasting of different garments is the most useful

As you state, everyone puts difference emphasis on different categories. An archer is going to put more importance on the quietness of garment over a rifle hunter that hunts mostly above treeline. Someone who hunts warmer climes isn't going to put the same importance on the warmth of a garment vs a late season hunter. Etc.

 

[Rufus]

Hey mtwarden. Do you have experience with the Sitka heavyweight hoodie and/or the Fanatic hoodie? Wondering where they would fall in the mix with these other mid layers.

 

[dtrkyman]

Great review,

I have an ambient jacket, really nice though the sleeves bunch up slightly at my wrist, not other Sitka pieces I own do this!

Looks like a First Lite Origin will be my first piece from them, I am a bowhunter and a full zip hoody sounds great!

 

[mtwarden]

Hey mtwarden. Do you have experience with the Sitka heavyweight hoodie and/or the Fanatic hoodie? Wondering where they would fall in the mix with these other mid layers.

I have a Sitka Heavyweight. Similar fabric weight to the Origin, heavier than the Vigor (so warmer). It's a grid style vs the closed weave of the Origin. It's going to breathe better than the other jackets (save the Vigor)- not a lot for wind or precip protection. Going to be similar in quietness to the other fleeces. Moving moisture I'd guess similar to the other fleeces.

I still use mine if I'm going to be hunting thick timbered cover (which is fair bit of the time)- less worries about tearing anything and it's quiet.

Great review,

I have an ambient jacket, really nice though the sleeves bunch up slightly at my wrist, not other Sitka pieces I own do this!

Looks like a First Lite Origin will be my first piece from them, I am a bowhunter and a full zip hoody sounds great!

The Origin is solid, but it's a half zip, not full

 

[dtrkyman]

I just noticed that on their site. Got it mixed with the Cirque lite.

 

[mtwarden]

I'm not the biggest fan of pullovers, but the Origin is cut well that it goes on/off pretty easy- it also has a kangaroo pocket (zipped even!) that is pretty nice

 

[aubrian95]

I have sitka grinder hoody. Same as hw hoody but also has dwr


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[mtwarden]

^ had to look that one up; funny they didn't add a dwr to the Heavyweight too????

 

[Rufus]

I have a Sitka Heavyweight. Similar fabric weight to the Origin, heavier than the Vigor (so warmer). It's a grid style vs the closed weave of the Origin. It's going to breathe better than the other jackets (save the Vigor)- not a lot for wind or precip protection. Going to be similar in quietness to the other fleeces. Moving moisture I'd guess similar to the other fleeces.

I still use mine if I'm going to be hunting thick timbered cover (which is fair bit of the time)- less worries about tearing anything and it's quiet.



The Origin is solid, but it's a half zip, not full

Thank you for your response. Based on the number of responses and questions, you’re going to be a busy man for the foreseeable future. We all really appreciate it. Thanks. -Rufus

 

[dtrkyman]

My one issue with the sitka heavy weight hoodie is if you use it as a midlayer it sticks to the base layer like glue! Probably my favorite base/midlayer though.

I actually sleep in it all the time!