Mental Process for deciding between companies for a first backcountry hunting backpack

[Middleofnowhere]

Kudos to you in your process. I made a similar chart when rifle shopping and it was very helpful when I finally picked.

 

[MeatSeaker]

I like how well thought out your decision process is.
I went through this a few year ago. Admittedly not as in-depth as you.
Now I have recreational backpacked for 30+ years but for hunting I would use a small daypack out of my truck/base camp. After the kill someone would have to hike back to get the meat hauling packs. I few years back I switched to backcountry/backpack based hunting. In addition to the criteria you came up with I also looked at two additional things.
1 Simplicity- main bag with lid. I found I don’t need lots of pockets, they just add weight and are never quite the right size for what I am trying to stuff into them.
2 Longevity- construction and materials. I try not to chase the newest and best but look at a long term purchase. Most improvements are minimal and not worth the cost of replacing every year. On this line of thinking I try to avoid elastic unless it is easily replaceable like elastic cordage, nothing I have to sew in. Elastic breaks down over time. EXO has a stretchy pocket on the back which is very handy. But I know it it will break down rendering it useless or causing a person to send it in for replacement.
Because of this Stone Glacier inched out EXO ( for me). Each person has their own requirements these are just the ones that are important to me.

Now if someone comes up with a pack that hauls my backside up the hills. I will be all over it.

I keep coming back to indecision. In my young adult life I did a lot of backpacking and ran lowe alpine, dana design, TNF, REI etc. Most of the packs had a very similar design, two water bottle pockets, side compression, roll or cinch top and lid. Some had a front pocket or a compression pocket with face compression straps. I just had my North Face Terra 40 out the other day replacing a buckle, and realized that the shock cords on the front of the pack have lost their elasticity. Probably can fix it, but you are right elastic components is certainly something to consider. All those side pockets on the Exo are appealing to me as I can see throwing tent poles, tarps, etc, etc in them. I haven't considered that front stretchy pocket eventually losing its stretch but that is something to consider.
I also keep thinking that maybe I can change the way I pack/carry gear. Perhaps simplicity is a good way to go. Do I need a pocket for everything or can certain things just get a velcro cinch strap or a stuff sack and sit inside the main bag compartment? Do I need those water bottle and hydration sleeves? I could probably manage without them but they do seem nice. Then I realize you can't reach them when you're hiking with the pack on anyway. Does a tripod really need a pocket when it can just be strapped on with the side compression. Does a spotter really need its own special pocket? Answer is probably no. Really I just need access to things that make the hunt better/more effective. Well crap, back to the drawing board.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Why/how does Seek Outside and Kifaru not make the list? You've got heavier, you've got less organized, you have a broad array of things across several brands. Just curious.

 

[Two Roads]

Stone Glacier. Those boys "get it". I lived out of a pack for long periods and many miles in prior life. I value my SG for weight, simplicity, and construction. Advice - functional minimalism. Did look at MR, nice product but starts out heavy empty. Pick one up. Plus, think long and hard about "bigger". Strip down your kit. And, my issue too, drop 10 lbs off the bod.

 

[MeatSeaker]

Why/how does Seek Outside and Kifaru not make the list? You've got heavier, you've got less organized, you have a broad array of things across several brands. Just curious.

The Seek Outside is a slick pack and very lightweight. I like that they make the pack ready to seam seal to make it waterproof. Though the X pack fabric seems like it would be loud. When I watch vids on the suspension and waist belt it doesn't appear as beefy or like it would carry loads like the SG or Exo. Also watching vids from SO on accessing the load shelf seems more cumbersome with the way the straps are set up vs other pack options. I'm sure I could learn how to do it, but not sure that I want to.
Kifaru I know has the waist belt of all belts from reviews. When I look at the pack choices I haven't seen anything that stood out to me. Perhaps I need to look closer if I could find the sweet spot in Kifaru between the Exo and SG. What's your suggestion on a similar Kifaru pack?

 

[Maverick1]

Looks like you've done some good research. Well laid out and thoughtful. And that's great.

Now it is time to get past the analysis paralysis.

The first reply to this thread hit it on the head. Verify their return policy, order one of each, and test them out with a sandbag/weight, making sure to keep them in pristine condition should you decide to send one back, not only for the sake of getting your money back but also as a courtesy to the next customer that would receive that specific pack; it's the right thing to do.

At best this will cost you the amount of return shipping. At "worst" your decision will take a little time and you can sell it here or someplace else for a little less than you bought it for.

Once you have it in your hands, fiddle with it, and load it up with weight you will know if it is the right one......

 

[MeatSeaker]

Analysis paralysis is the truth

 

[prm]

Rather than thinking directly about the specific packs, think through how you hunt and use a pack. As an example, here’s how I use a pack for an elk hunt:

• Load everything for up to 6 days and hike 4-6 miles to camp. Weights are typically a little over 50 lbs including rifle.
• Consider how weapon is carried if you want to use trekking poles.
• Setup camp. Remove everything from pack except that necessary for hunting. Kill kit, Misc supplies, water filtration, first aid, food for day, 1l water, clothing layers as necessary. I want the pack as light and compact as possible. Nothing flopping around.
• Elk down. Load as much meat/antlers as I can carry. I still want my gear listed above accessible and separate from meat. Trekking poles are now a must for me thus weapon secured. Ensure meat is properly positioned and secure. Repeat until all meat is at truck.
• Load camp and haul back to truck.

After many years, and many packs, I’ve narrowed down what I prefer in a pack. Write out your hunt(s) and what you want from a pack and then see how each might meet your specific needs. This may help with bag design. Still need to try on for fit.

 

[Elkfitness]

I'm a mental kind of guy, but for pack decisions it's all physical for me. So it's hard to pick one without trying it or several others.

I agree. You need to try on some packs to see what fits under multiple days of loads/hunting and then what bags you like after that.


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[WV Mountaineer]

The Seek Outside is a slick pack and very lightweight. I like that they make the pack ready to seam seal to make it waterproof. Though the X pack fabric seems like it would be loud. When I watch vids on the suspension and waist belt it doesn't appear as beefy or like it would carry loads like the SG or Exo. Also watching vids from SO on accessing the load shelf seems like a PIA with the way the straps are set up vs other pack options. I'm sure I could learn how to do it, but not sure that I want to.
Kifaru I know has the waist belt of all belts from reviews. When I look at the pack choices I haven't seen anything that stood out to me. Perhaps I need to look closer if I could find the sweet spot in Kifaru between the Exo and SG. What's your suggestion on a similar Kifaru pack?

I don’t really know what you are looking for as priority. And, all the packs that were on your list are great packs. I was just confused. It was my fault. Because you weren’t sold on one attribute of the companies. Meaning, weight, price, origin of make, etc.... wasn’t ruling the choice for you. You were across the spectrum so to speak. Which led me to believe you may have not been aware of the other two choices I asked about.

 

[Kevin_t]

The Seek Outside is a slick pack and very lightweight. I like that they make the pack ready to seam seal to make it waterproof. Though the X pack fabric seems like it would be loud. When I watch vids on the suspension and waist belt it doesn't appear as beefy or like it would carry loads like the SG or Exo. Also watching vids from SO on accessing the load shelf seems like a PIA with the way the straps are set up vs other pack options. I'm sure I could learn how to do it, but not sure that I want to.
Kifaru I know has the waist belt of all belts from reviews. When I look at the pack choices I haven't seen anything that stood out to me. Perhaps I need to look closer if I could find the sweet spot in Kifaru between the Exo and SG. What's your suggestion on a similar Kifaru pack?

Maybe we need to redo our videos . Most reviews say our load shelf is the easiest one to use . The belt can be used captured instead of floating . Here is our belt in a nutshell - we prefer conformance over brute strength . Think about it this way ... you really can’t pull a waist belt off you if it is cinched moderately tight because it conforms . Other belts can be stiffer but don’t conform and if they don’t conform they will work down and you use brute strength and extreme tightness to keep them in place vs conforming fit


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[sndmn11]

The Seek Outside is a slick pack and very lightweight. I like that they make the pack ready to seam seal to make it waterproof. Though the X pack fabric seems like it would be loud. When I watch vids on the suspension and waist belt it doesn't appear as beefy or like it would carry loads like the SG or Exo. Also watching vids from SO on accessing the load shelf seems like a PIA with the way the straps are set up vs other pack options. I'm sure I could learn how to do it, but not sure that I want to.
Kifaru I know has the waist belt of all belts from reviews. When I look at the pack choices I haven't seen anything that stood out to me. Perhaps I need to look closer if I could find the sweet spot in Kifaru between the Exo and SG. What's your suggestion on a similar Kifaru pack?

I think you are missing the boat if you aren't considering these, and somewhere your research landed on bad data. The load shelf on the SO Revolution is accessible with a few unclips of buckles, and like Kevin says above, the waist belt's form follows the function.

Kifaru has a silly amount of options to allow you to mix and match to fit your needs.

 

[MeatSeaker]

Rather than thinking directly about the specific packs, think through how you hunt and use a pack. As an example, here’s how I use a pack for an elk hunt:

• Load everything for up to 6 days and hike 4-6 miles to camp. Weights are typically a little over 50 lbs including rifle.
• Consider how weapon is carried if you want to use trekking poles.
• Setup camp. Remove everything from pack except that necessary for hunting. Kill kit, Misc supplies, water filtration, first aid, food for day, 1l water, clothing layers as necessary. I want the pack as light and compact as possible. Nothing flopping around.
• Elk down. Load as much meat/antlers as I can carry. I still want my gear listed above accessible and separate from meat. Trekking poles are now a must for me thus weapon secured. Ensure meat is properly positioned and secure. Repeat until all meat is at truck.
• Load camp and haul back to truck.

After many years, and many packs, I’ve narrowed down what I prefer in a pack. Write out your hunt(s) and what you want from a pack and then see how each might meet your specific needs. This may help with bag design. Still need to try on for fit.

My planned hunts in the near future are archery Elk and AZ Coues rifle. Elk is 7-14 days late Sept. most likely day hunts from either a base camp at the truck or a few days here and there after a hike in. Dayhunts may turn into overnighters. So I'll want a lightweight pack primarily a day hunter that can also turn into a 3-4 day trip into an area drop camp and again day hunt. I can use possibly use the load shelf for a drop camp if I am smart planning location in case I need to pack an animal out to limit pack out trips.
I am a fairly Spartan packer. I don't need a ton of extra gear, but I do like organization.
I lived out of a single duffle bag and backpack for in Alaska for years without issue.
I also want a pack that keeps meat separate from my gear. That's why that SG load shelf is so appealing.
Deer are definitely day hunts so need lightweight with the ability to pack whole animal out when successful.

So far having a pack that can compress down for day hunts, is fairly lightweight, but can expand for a few days worth of gear seem like what I'm looking for.

 

[MeatSeaker]

Maybe we need to redo our videos . Most reviews say our load shelf is the easiest one to use . The belt can be used captured instead of floating . Here is our belt in a nutshell - we prefer conformance over brute strength . Think about it this way ... you really can’t pull a waist belt off you if it is cinched moderately tight because it conforms . Other belts can be stiffer but don’t conform and if they don’t conform they will work down and you use brute strength and extreme tightness to keep them in place vs conforming fit


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I want to say I appreciate all the input on this mental analysis/exercise or pack picking process for me. I also want to clarify that this was in NO way a review of any of these packs as I have zero experience with any of the companies. Buying a backpack or a bow is a purely personal choice. My only experience is backpacking since I was a teenager from Alaska to Europe and South America and currently have an REI pack. I never really was a brand loyalist. I used packs from a lot of the manufacturers like I said before from Lowe Alpine, TNF, Dana, REI etc. I am also in no way saying one company is better than another. I do appreciate the companies that make their packs in house in the USA and will spend more to support them vs the MR that have overseas folks build the packs. Ultimately though if a certain pack is better for me then its better.

Some companies though do have a bigger following and have tons of youtube hunters using the gear and showing the features. I realize that like in archery people get their favorite companies and can be loyal to them like a Hoyt vs Mathews or Ford vs Chevy debate. I only want to look at the attributes of a specific pack regardless of the maker that will have me say to myself after the purchase that was money well spent. I got the best pack for my use for the money.

Kevin, I have watched your Seek Outside videos, and will certainly watch again as I love your pack layouts and designs especially the peregrine 3500. Maybe I'm missing something. If you can point me to a video that shows how to use your shelf and pack out a heavy load that would be great.
SG has a ton of videos showing people loading up successful harvests and using their load shelf. This makes their design appealing as in a way you know what you're getting. Both SG and Exo have quite a few pack dump videos so you can see their packs in use and what they'll fit and how one might be likely to use them. That again makes their packs appealing.

I am definitely looking hard at Seek outside lightweight shelters and one of them will likely be in whatever pack I choose at some point.

Ultimately it looks as if I'll have to pony up and pick 2-3 packs and try them out at home under load and return the ones that don't work out.

 

[renagde]

I'm running a Exo K3 4800 now and I'm really impressed with the bag layout and accessibility. I got 2 hunting partners that use SG, one with the Xcurve and one with the Krux Evo. SG gets away with being so light by not having any organization sewn into the bag, especially when looking at the 40/56 or the Solo packs. Both of my hunting buddies would give up a few ounces to have some additional zippers and pouches. Also saves you from having to buy a bunch of pullouts which add up to a few ounces so any weight that you have saved on the pack is wiped out. The load shelf on the SG is a nice touch, but the way the Exo bag separates from the frame is a much easier system, and even though there's not an actual load shelf, by cinching the bottom on the bag and using the built in straps it achieves the same end goal.

In the end, I think you'll like both of them, it's going to come down to which one fits your back profile the best. And you can disregard anything you read about the Exo K2 packs not having comfortable belt straps or lumbar pads-they completely redesigned that on the K3 packs and really knocked it out of the park.

 

[Marble]

My few thoughts on pack organization and being in the back country. This is to address the lack of pockets on some packs the OP discussed.

I have found having the smaller bags to place other items in easier to keep organize when unloaded. Food, cook system, kill kit, possibles pouch, electrocics and batteries etc..

I can lay it all out in camp and have eveything ready and accessible all of the time.

I do like having a bottle holder that I can reach.

I use a lid that contains things I will need repeatedly throughout the day.

Pockets aren't my main concern.

For me, I would struggle to use a 3500 to 4500 ci pack for an elk hunt for 4 days. If I didnt plan on packing meat in the pack then that would work. I see you want to use the meat shelf primarily which would make the difference. I just dont prefer that method currently.

I can only speak to how much the Kifaru Cavern compresses. It is deceiving how small it gets.

I think you are almost there. The good thing is you are looking at options that are all great.

 

[carsonkeys]

I've got an R3 3300 with lid, I'd sell for $175. You'd have to buy a SG frame, but it'd be a very cost efficient way to try out Stone Glacier.

 

[renagde]

Also while it is nice to be able to buy multiple packs and try them out, just because returns are free does not mean shipping is free. Last time I shipped a pack it was over $40 to get from the East coast to the West coast so keep that in mind if you plan to order a bunch and return the ones you didn't like.

 

[Kevin_t]

I want to say I appreciate all the input on this mental analysis/exercise or pack picking process for me. I also want to clarify that this was in NO way a review of any of these packs as I have zero experience with any of the companies. Buying a backpack or a bow is a purely personal choice. My only experience is backpacking since I was a teenager from Alaska to Europe and South America and currently have an REI pack. I never really was a brand loyalist. I used packs from a lot of the manufacturers like I said before from Lowe Alpine, TNF, Dana, REI etc. I am also in no way saying one company is better than another. I do appreciate the companies that make their packs in house in the USA and will spend more to support them vs the MR that have overseas folks build the packs. Ultimately though if a certain pack is better for me then its better.

Some companies though do have a bigger following and have tons of youtube hunters using the gear and showing the features. I realize that like in archery people get their favorite companies and can be loyal to them like a Hoyt vs Mathews or Ford vs Chevy debate. I only want to look at the attributes of a specific pack regardless of the maker that will have me say to myself after the purchase that was money well spent. I got the best pack for my use for the money.

Kevin, I have watched your Seek Outside videos, and will certainly watch again as I love your pack layouts and designs especially the peregrine 3500. Maybe I'm missing something. If you can point me to a video that shows how to use your shelf and pack out a heavy load that would be great.
SG has a ton of videos showing people loading up successful harvests and using their load shelf. This makes their design appealing as in a way you know what you're getting. Both SG and Exo have quite a few pack dump videos so you can see their packs in use and what they'll fit and how one might be likely to use them. That again makes their packs appealing.

I am definitely looking hard at Seek outside lightweight shelters and one of them will likely be in whatever pack I choose at some point.

Ultimately it looks as if I'll have to pony up and pick 2-3 packs and try them out at home under load and return the ones that don't work out.

Here you go. The last video is older and could be a little cleaner and more concise. Personally, I almost always use an integrated and meat in the bag approach, or compress under a talon, and seldom do I feel like recording videos when I am out hunting (sorry), especially when I am solo.

 

[MeatSeaker]

Thanks Kevin
I also found some of the videos you guys did in late April that I hadn’t seen before
I like that you can move your shelf up and down the frame as well as add compression straps across a load of meat under the bag if wanted. That’s a nice feature I didn’t realize you had on the frame