Meateater wolf podcast vs Kifaru Wolf Podcast

[JLW66]

I tend to agree with your point. Its not that everyone, myself included, is opposed to predators coming back to the landscape, its being lied to and f..d with that really gets me going. The money that people are making off this, the greed factor and being fed the crap sandwich. The ability to use Federal $$$'s and tie up resources for profit while trying to get us to buy off on the holy than thou attitude. Predators need to be managed. Let the people who actually live in the areas manage the resource, not attorneys in CA.

 

[sasquatch]

Here is the bottom line. There are over 350 million people now living in this country. You can't mimic wildlife dynamics that occurred 250 years ago, when there was less then 1 million people and, millions of Bison roaming around. It can't be done. So there is no need to try. Yet, we can't get enough hair on our hunting asses to simply say that. As a whole. Look at this thread for proof.

No where in this world, at anytime, has apex predators lived in harmony with one another. I find it unbelievable that has become lost in modern Wildlife management. Lets protect cats, bears, and wolves in our ecosystems. With no regards to what it means for the APEX predator in those ecosystems. US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have no remorse in saying let these animals earn their spot among us. But, quit acting as if they deserve our part of it.

We have taken ungulate herds migration routes, wintering grounds, and neighborhoods in the interests of farming, development, and ranching. So it stands to reason we have to keep their unlimited killing to acceptable levels by natural predators. Concerning the human aspect of depredation, we have done this. However, to be responsible stewards, we need to do our part in keeping their predators to a minimum. Its the only responsible and just thing to do. Yet, modern wildlife management suggest we need these exploited numbers of other predators to reach a balance?

As hunters we owe hunting's future a common sense approach to this. We should all be preaching messages to let these other predators etch out a living around our APEX status. For any hunter to suggest different in incomprehensible to me.

My feelings on this will tell you which podcast I agreed with more.

Amen to that!!! The HUMAN population is one that never comes up. Dude to our “feelings” on it and the emphasis we put on the value of “life”

We are yet another species with virtually zero management and we are the most destructive!

Every other species we understand the need to “manage” but when it comes to ourselves we cure everything and engineer things to sustain our numbers. One day we will be eating synthetic food wondering where all the natural food went.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RedSnow]

Both made good points. I do think that Rinella would side with the Kifaru stance at the end of the day.

 

[RedSnow]

I tend to agree with your point. Its not that everyone, myself included, is opposed to predators coming back to the landscape, its being lied to and f..d with that really gets me going. The money that people are making off this, the greed factor and being fed the crap sandwich. The ability to use Federal $$$'s and tie up resources for profit while trying to get us to buy off on the holy than thou attitude. Predators need to be managed. Let the people who actually live in the areas manage the resource, not attorneys in CA.

100% agreed the CA lawyers would cut every hunter's throat given the chance and should not be in the middle of this to begin with.

 

[sneaky]

Amen to that!!! The HUMAN population is one that never comes up. Dude to our “feelings” on it and the emphasis we put on the value of “life”

We are yet another species with virtually zero management and we are the most destructive!

Every other species we understand the need to “manage” but when it comes to ourselves we cure everything and engineer things to sustain our numbers. One day we will be eating synthetic food wondering where all the natural food went.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They're already selling synthetic meat. The days of cattle on the landscape are being threatened. They use the argument that'll help combat global warming.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[dreamingbig]

Why do I get the feeling that there are so many wolf lovers dressed in sheeps clothing on this thread.

If you want to accelerate the end to recreational hunting then support wolves. If you would like your grandchildren to have the option to hunt then you should be opposed to any and all further reintroduction of wolves.

You can’t have both. They are mutually exclusive. I live in WA state and in my lifetime (I am 40) I have see predators pretty much destroy the state. Why? Public vote eliminated bear hunting with bait and hounds and mountain lions with hounds and traps. Then came the wolves. It is a train wreck. Don’t let it come to your state too.

And you should be screaming for better management at the state level of all apex predators. I count those as bears, mountain lions and wolves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ODB]

Why do I get the feeling that there are so many wolf lovers dressed in sheeps clothing on this thread.

If you want to accelerate the end to recreational hunting then support wolves. If you would like your grandchildren to have the option to hunt then you should be opposed to any and all further reintroduction of wolves.

You can’t have both. They are mutually exclusive. I live in WA state and in my lifetime (I am 40) I have see predators pretty much destroy the state. Why? Public vote eliminated bear hunting with bait and hounds and mountain lions with hounds and traps. Then came the wolves. It is a train wreck. Don’t let it come to your state too.

And you should be screaming for better management at the state level of all apex predators. I count those as bears, mountain lions and wolves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I lived in wA for 16 years, the problem is NOT the wolves it’s the goddam initiative systems that allow MOB rule by uneducated fools. THAT will end hunting before lack of animals....

I saw very closely how it works with guns, ivory, and other shit....paid signature gatherers who don’t know anything gather a relatively small number of names from Safeway parking lots and people who don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground about the issue read the initiative for the FIRST time on Election Day and poof...MOB rules...

That, my friends is a bigger issue than the wolf... you let wildlife, ALL wildlife be properly managed and things will be fine...but it’s political, folks...

 

[dreamingbig]

Did you read it all? I did mention the public vote...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ODB]

Did you read it all? I did mention the public vote...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course I did. The point in there is too much focus on “the wolf” and not “the system”. It’s the system that by and large is killing our hunting , not the wolf. In other words, while we bitch about the wolf, we are losing even more at the ballot box. We’re are focused on the wrong thing in my opinion.

Wolves and hunting are not musically exclusive. Hunting and an ignorant, political, initiative-driven populous are.

 

[wind gypsy]

Why do I get the feeling that there are so many wolf lovers dressed in sheeps clothing on this thread.

Must be something to do with your ability to reason.

 

[RedSnow]

Why do I get the feeling that there are so many wolf lovers dressed in sheeps clothing on this thread.

If you want to accelerate the end to recreational hunting then support wolves. If you would like your grandchildren to have the option to hunt then you should be opposed to any and all further reintroduction of wolves.

You can’t have both. They are mutually exclusive. I live in WA state and in my lifetime (I am 40) I have see predators pretty much destroy the state. Why? Public vote eliminated bear hunting with bait and hounds and mountain lions with hounds and traps. Then came the wolves. It is a train wreck. Don’t let it come to your state too.

And you should be screaming for better management at the state level of all apex predators. I count those as bears, mountain lions and wolves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It happened in my neck of the woods too. In the Upper Penninsula of Michigan wolves cut the white tail deer population drastically. They are coming to the lower Penninsula now and that is where our very small Elk herd is located.... I feel it's full on mob mentality with the liberal media leading the way.

 

[Okhotnik]

In case there are people who don't want to believe that wolves kill for sport. Here is documentation of sport killing by wolves. As reported by CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/25/us/wyoming-wolf-pack-elk-slaughter/index.html

You’re gonna upset the deniers on here with facts. The same group always state that wolves have never attacked a human

 

[Okhotnik]

It happened in my neck of the woods too. In the Upper Penninsula of Michigan wolves cut the white tail deer population drastically. They are coming to the lower Penninsula now and that is where our very small Elk herd is located.... I feel it's full on mob mentality with the liberal media leading the way.

Wolves only kill the weak and the sick and they help trout populations

That’s from a ridiculous YNP hugger study

 

[Okhotnik]

It isn't an anti wolf thing - however, if you question it, whether you question it trying to educate yourself or because you're genuinely curious, you get lumped into the anti hunting category. I think that's what 2ski was trying to get at.

Its really sad to know that supposed outdoorsmen did not even know that wolves kill for pleasure or kill an animal eat a little bit of and leave the rest to rot. Wolves have been documented all over the west and Europe and Asia for centuries killing livestock for pleasure and not eating what the kill. Wolves have been even documented dragging bears and cubs out of their dens and just killing them.

Regarding wolf tourism. I see a few old ladies driving Subaru’s with “ Im with her “ bumper stickers wearing turtle necks and mommy jeans taking pics of wolves in YNP with thousands of dollars of camera gear. None of them have probably never steppped off of an asphalt viewing area in their lives based on their large sizes but they have a crazy infatuation with wolves. Their numbers are few and would never generate much revenue compared to regular tourism


If the wolf tourism myth were true people would be heading to Canada and Alaska or Wisconsin or Michigan where there tens of thousands of wolves roam

 

[Okhotnik]

I don't understand this opinion that wolves are a different type of sadistic killer. They just happen to efficiently kill stuff we like to hunt and eat. If wolves lived on skunks and gophers would we care how many they slaughtered? Is their behavior different than a raccoon or bobcat killing everything in the chicken coop? My dog kills every single trespassing squirrel that enters our property. Never eats them and no one would ever mistake my mutt for a wolf. I don't see a wolf as a more sinister killer but that doesn't mean we should be importing them to the hen house. And we definitely need management to control the ones that are here.

What caught my eye in the CNN article is the fact they were feeding the elk so they were probably stacked up like Texas whitetails at a corn feeder. Easy to see a frenzy of killing happening there.

I have an elk feeding station any my house . 3 more feeding areas an hour from house. My neighbor feeds the elk and big horn sheep and I have helped a few times

Elk aren’t stacked up at feeding stations .

 

[Boudreaux]

Might as well use Mexican grey wolves because they're as close to the actual prior species as the massive Canadian dogs. Another awesome part of the reintroduction is that it's a very different subspecies being reintroduced.

introducing an apex predator, and invasive species,

Not these wolves. These are Canadian grey wolves, not the timber wolves that were native and much smaller than these. Those were the ones that were extirpated.

Also, the people thinking Canadian wolves aren't a different non-native subspecies haven't researched or are lapping up information from their favorite wolf lover. The non-native wolves make the reintroduction really a less valuable and more destructive exercise.

Impact of wolf recovery on wolf subspecies. – Early taxonomists, often utilizing few specimens, named
24 subspecies of gray wolf (Canis lupus) in North America based upon skull characteristics, body size,
and color. Recent taxonomic investigations indicate fewer subspecies of wolves originally occupied
North America than was formerly believed. The wolf populations that inhabited the Yellowstone and
central Idaho areas were eliminated by about 1930. Recent taxonomic work based upon statistical
analysis of skull measurements and pelt characteristics indicates that those wolves were slightly
smaller and contained fewer black color phase individuals than the more northern Canadian wolves
that are now dispersing southward and occupying Montana. Whether these size and pelt differences
were due to local geographical or climatic conditions, or very distinct genetic differences is being
discussed in the scientific arena. Some recent molecular investigations suggest that gray wolves
throughout northern North America are all one subspecies of Canis lupus. This work indicates only red
wolves and Mexican wolves are genetically different a the molecular level.

This is direct information used from the Environmental Impact Statement(EIS) for the reintroduction of wolves from May of 1994. They might have been slightly smaller due to Bergmann's Rule, basically the higher in latitude the bigger the body mass. Same reason whitetail deer in Alabama are smaller than whitetail in Alberta.

Here is DATA about wolves in the states before the reintroduction.

Montana – The wolf population in Montana has continued to expand. Six packs or breeding pairs currently exist, including one pack on the eastern Rocky Mountain front. An estimated population of 65 wolves lives in northwestern Montana (USFWS 1992). At least four litters (minimum of 21 pups) were produced in northwestern Montana in 1990 (USFWS 1991); and at least two litters with about ten pups were born in 1991. Dispersal of wolves from northwestern Montana to areas near Banff National Park, Alberta, and vice versa, has been documented.

Idaho – Sightings of wolves have been repeatedly reported in Idaho, but breeding has not been confirmed. In 1991, the presence of at least two wolves was confirmed at an elk kill in March in northern Idaho, and a black wolf was found poisoned in the Boise National Forest near the Bear Valley area north of Boise. Although previous evidence suggested possible pack activity in the Bear Valley area, no further evidence has been confirmed (USFWS, unpubl. data). Dispersal of radio-collared wolves from Glacier National Park and Banff National Park into north central Idaho was documented in 1992093. At this time these animals have not formed pairs.

Wyoming – In Yellowstone National Park, reports of wolves, howling, and tracks have been scattered throughout the pack and adjacent areas in the past several years. Almost all reported observations have been of single individuals. There are no known wolf packs or breeding pairs in the GYA. August 8, 1992, a black wolf-like canid was filmed for several minutes in the Hayden Valley. This filming coincided with several reports of a black wolf observed in the areas over the next several weeks. On September 30, 1992, a male wolf as shot three miles (5 km) south of the park boundary in the Fox Park area of the Teton Wilderness. This was the first wolf killed close to the park since 1926. Although several coyotes were reported running with the wolf prior to its death, extensive field investigations did not reveal evidence of additional wolves. Genetic investigations verified this animals was genetically related to wolves in northwestern Montana.

If you want to read and understand what was studied, look at, evaluated and what plan A, B, C and D were. I suggest you take a few hours and read the EIS from 1994.

Wolf Reintroduction Environmental Impact Statement

 

[sneaky]

Impact of wolf recovery on wolf subspecies. – Early taxonomists, often utilizing few specimens, named
24 subspecies of gray wolf (Canis lupus) in North America based upon skull characteristics, body size,
and color. Recent taxonomic investigations indicate fewer subspecies of wolves originally occupied
North America than was formerly believed. The wolf populations that inhabited the Yellowstone and
central Idaho areas were eliminated by about 1930. Recent taxonomic work based upon statistical
analysis of skull measurements and pelt characteristics indicates that those wolves were slightly
smaller and contained fewer black color phase individuals than the more northern Canadian wolves
that are now dispersing southward and occupying Montana. Whether these size and pelt differences
were due to local geographical or climatic conditions, or very distinct genetic differences is being
discussed in the scientific arena. Some recent molecular investigations suggest that gray wolves
throughout northern North America are all one subspecies of Canis lupus. This work indicates only red
wolves and Mexican wolves are genetically different a the molecular level.

This is direct information used from the Environmental Impact Statement(EIS) for the reintroduction of wolves from May of 1994. They might have been slightly smaller due to Bergmann's Rule, basically the higher in latitude the bigger the body mass. Same reason whitetail deer in Alabama are smaller than whitetail in Alberta.

Here is DATA about wolves in the states before the reintroduction.

Montana – The wolf population in Montana has continued to expand. Six packs or breeding pairs currently exist, including one pack on the eastern Rocky Mountain front. An estimated population of 65 wolves lives in northwestern Montana (USFWS 1992). At least four litters (minimum of 21 pups) were produced in northwestern Montana in 1990 (USFWS 1991); and at least two litters with about ten pups were born in 1991. Dispersal of wolves from northwestern Montana to areas near Banff National Park, Alberta, and vice versa, has been documented.

Idaho – Sightings of wolves have been repeatedly reported in Idaho, but breeding has not been confirmed. In 1991, the presence of at least two wolves was confirmed at an elk kill in March in northern Idaho, and a black wolf was found poisoned in the Boise National Forest near the Bear Valley area north of Boise. Although previous evidence suggested possible pack activity in the Bear Valley area, no further evidence has been confirmed (USFWS, unpubl. data). Dispersal of radio-collared wolves from Glacier National Park and Banff National Park into north central Idaho was documented in 1992093. At this time these animals have not formed pairs.

Wyoming – In Yellowstone National Park, reports of wolves, howling, and tracks have been scattered throughout the pack and adjacent areas in the past several years. Almost all reported observations have been of single individuals. There are no known wolf packs or breeding pairs in the GYA. August 8, 1992, a black wolf-like canid was filmed for several minutes in the Hayden Valley. This filming coincided with several reports of a black wolf observed in the areas over the next several weeks. On September 30, 1992, a male wolf as shot three miles (5 km) south of the park boundary in the Fox Park area of the Teton Wilderness. This was the first wolf killed close to the park since 1926. Although several coyotes were reported running with the wolf prior to its death, extensive field investigations did not reveal evidence of additional wolves. Genetic investigations verified this animals was genetically related to wolves in northwestern Montana.

If you want to read and understand what was studied, look at, evaluated and what plan A, B, C and D were. I suggest you take a few hours and read the EIS from 1994.

Wolf Reintroduction Environmental Impact Statement

Now, post up some population data that isn't almost 30 years old. Bergman's rule may apply, but that only solidifies the fact that they brought larger wolves in and released them.

Wolves are the trojan horse. They keep coming after guns, can't ban them, so they make ammunition harder and harder to get, and more expensive as a deterrent. They can't eliminate hunting seasons, so they use wolves as a way in. They are exceedingly popular with the urban dwellers, and a litigators cash cow. They hammer ungulate populations in areas where they are concentrated now due to humans taking up all their historic winter ranges. Reduce game numbers, you reduce hunters. It's the perfect plan, because they have the support from both the hunting and non hunting ranks.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Idaho_Potato]

I've asked it before and received no response.

How do I fill my wolf tags?

I can fill FIVE wolf tags here in Idaho for pennies. I just don't have a clue how to find one. I think the general sentiment here is that we have a problem with wolves. Well, I say we figure this out and help the ungulate populations with something we all can do now - hunt them.

Anyone have information to share? There shouldn't be any hesitation with sharing units or spots in this case. Anybody? PM me if you don't want to blast your spot.

Maybe we can make backcountry wolf hunting as popular as archery elk on social media

 

[RedSnow]

Wolves only kill the weak and the sick and they help trout populations

That’s from a ridiculous YNP hugger study

Unfortunately many people are going to buy that. It's unfortunate because the way it is sold "save the wolves" sounds good to many people who don't understand the repercussions. Even worse it sounds great to the gun grabbers who do understand.

 

[hntnnut]

You really want to muddy the waters listen to Randy Newberg's pod cast #103 where he talks with Jim Heffelfinger about the Mexican grey wolf in Arizona and New Mexico and what a wolf introduction in Colorado would probably do to the Mexican wolf reinduction.


Richard