Meateater on sleeping lion controversy

[Ratbeetle]

Glad I'm not the only one not a fan of Ben O'Brien. Guy just rubs me the wrong way. I feel the podcast has really gone down hill lately.

They are trying to grow this media empire and doing it way too fast.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Accurate assessment, love the dumbassery assessment scale. Chess, not checkers here folks. I don't expect the defenders and perpetrators of dumbassery to understand.

I hate that chess statement. That is what the spineless say to make themselves feel better about appeasing the opposition.

 

[Gobbler36]

yeah Benny boy has killed my enjoyment for meateater also. Feel the whole scandal chart idea has good intentions but just goes about it the wrong way. I think we all agree we have to be aware of what we publicly post but this feels like an attack on a legal sanctioned hunt..... point out the obvious then educate on the good that hunt contributed to

 

[jfs82]

I hate that chess statement. That is what the spineless say to make themselves feel better about appeasing the opposition.

How? This just feels like today's political world wrapped into a smaller debate. Don't agree so I'll use an insult as an argument with no explanation. I don't know enough about Ben Obrien to have an opinion, but this sure doesn't help inform anyone of anything.

 

[Ratbeetle]

How? This just feels like today's political world wrapped into a smaller debate. Don't agree so I'll use an insult as an argument with no explanation. I don't know enough about Ben Obrien to have an opinion, but this sure doesn't help inform anyone of anything.

When has capitulation helped anyone against the antis? If we concede an inch, they take a mile.

The insta-crowd is a fickle bunch with a short attention span and a proclivity for outrage. They're outraged about a lion this week and next week it will be on to the next sjw issue.

Don't give their whining any legitimacy. Ignore them and let the issue fade into obscurity. You won't beat emotional reactions with facts about conservation and legality. Just ask a BC grizzly hunter.

This stupid chart, probably created just for clicks, does exactly the opposite of what it should. It legitimizes the whiners by responding to their histrionics and keeps people talking about the issue.

Theres my argument. YMMV.

 

[Trial153]

When has capitulation helped anyone against the antis? If we concede an inch, they take a mile.

The insta-crowd is a fickle bunch with a short attention span and a proclivity for outrage. They're outraged about a lion this week and next week it will be on to the next sjw issue.

Don't give their whining any legitimacy. Ignore them and let the issue fade into obscurity. You won't beat emotional reactions with facts about conservation and legality. Just ask a BC grizzly hunter.

This stupid chart, probably created just for clicks, does exactly the opposite of what it should. It legitimizes the whiners by responding to their histrionics and keeps people talking about the issue.

Theres my argument. YMMV.

This would work great if we were dealing with 2 percent of the population that identified as antihunters.

The problem is that its the 85 percent of the population that isnt pro or con hunting that will be deciding our fate in the voting booth.
In plan speak your plan long term sucks.

 

[Y2JJ]

All press isn’t good press in hunting. I honestly see nothing wrong with the hunt, the 20 seconds I saw. I do not know the hunter at all either so I have no idea how big his ego is. And why do all these hunters supposedly have big egos. I’d love to have the money to mix in opportunities on private land to go after mature animals. I also love hunting public lands that we all own. Why are we dividing as hunters?

 

[Gobbler36]

When has capitulation helped anyone against the antis? If we concede an inch, they take a mile.

The insta-crowd is a fickle bunch with a short attention span and a proclivity for outrage. They're outraged about a lion this week and next week it will be on to the next sjw issue.

Don't give their whining any legitimacy. Ignore them and let the issue fade into obscurity. You won't beat emotional reactions with facts about conservation and legality. Just ask a BC grizzly hunter.

This stupid chart, probably created just for clicks, does exactly the opposite of what it should. It legitimizes the whiners by responding to their histrionics and keeps people talking about the issue.

Theres my argument. YMMV.

Bingo

 

[Ratbeetle]

This would work great if we were dealing with 2 percent of the population that identified as antihunters.

The problem is that its the 85 percent of the population that isnt pro or con hunting that will be deciding our fate in the voting booth.
In plan speak your plan long term sucks.

Your problem is that you think logic and facts can trump emotion. Grizzly hunting in BC has taught us nothing could be further from the truth.

The simple fact of the matter is that a large percentage of that 85% of the general public are going to see a grip and grin with ole simba and have a deep emotional reaction of disgust. You can't change that. But many of those people also have the attention span of a 3 yr old with ADD and they'll move on in five minutes...if you let them.

 

[jfs82]

When has capitulation helped anyone against the antis? If we concede an inch, they take a mile.

The insta-crowd is a fickle bunch with a short attention span and a proclivity for outrage. They're outraged about a lion this week and next week it will be on to the next sjw issue.

Don't give their whining any legitimacy. Ignore them and let the issue fade into obscurity. You won't beat emotional reactions with facts about conservation and legality. Just ask a BC grizzly hunter.

This stupid chart, probably created just for clicks, does exactly the opposite of what it should. It legitimizes the whiners by responding to their histrionics and keeps people talking about the issue.

Theres my argument. YMMV.

Thank you, though I definitely disagree with much of this (not all), this is the sort of post that I find helpful and moves forward legitimate discussion.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Thank you, though I definitely disagree with much of this (not all), this is the sort of post that I find helpful and moves forward legitimate discussion.

Sure thing. Nothing wrong with disagreement. I don't claim to be right about everything. This is just how I see it.

 

[Trial153]

Your problem is that you think logic and facts can trump emotion. Grizzly hunting in BC has taught us nothing could be further from the truth.

The simple fact of the matter is that a large percentage of that 85% of the general public are going to see a grip and grin with ole simba and have a deep emotional reaction of disgust. You can't change that. But many of those people also have the attention span of a 3 yr old with ADD and they'll move on in five minutes...if you let them.

What was their attention span five minutes when referendums were lost I'm BC, Colorado, California? Your plan is a long term looser, it been proven so. Time to start a new dialogue that is favorable to us.

 

[elkyinzer]

I hate that chess statement. That is what the spineless say to make themselves feel better about appeasing the opposition.

Good talk. I believe your strategy is a loser but I guess time will tell. Fighting for this stuff isn't my lot in life, I'm just the guy behind the keyboard providing the commentary. I'm glad there are folks out there like Rinella that are waking up and fighting antis with a smarter strategy than arrogant idiocy because that clearly isn't working. In the end its probably all pissing into the wind if you study the demographic trends at all.

 

[Ratbeetle]

What was their attention span five minutes when referendums were lost I'm BC, Colorado, California? Your plan is long term looser, it been proven so. Time to start a new dialogue that is favorable to us.

So not wading into a social media shitstorm about a completely irrelevant hunt that happened almost 20 yrs ago is is somehow the same as working to defeat local ballot issues?

Please explain for me what exactly this chart does to sway emotional public opinion on local issues.

 

[Trial153]

So not wading into a social media shitstorm about a completely irrelevant hunt that happened almost 20 yrs ago is is somehow the same as working to defeat local ballot issues?

Please explain for me what exactly this chart does to sway emotional public opinion on local issues.

Your missing the point. The chart isnt about making non hunters use it and think differently. Its about getting hunters to think and act differently. If some hunters to start thinking about their actions and how they might be perceived by others, then its win for us. We can't afford the " screw you, I am right and what you think doesn't mean shit" mentality anymore. Because time and again its smashed in out face that what others think about our actions matters. They vote, we lose.

 

[Hunterbobbyk]

Your missing the point. The chart isnt about making non hunters use it and think differently. Its about getting hunters to think and act differently. If some hunters to start thinking about their actions and how they might be perceived by others, then its win for us. We can't afford the " screw you, I am right and what you think doesn't mean shit" mentality anymore. Because time and again its smashed in out face that what others think about our actions matters. They vote, we lose.

This is the way I perceive the scale/rating as well. It's more of a self reflection scale. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Good talk. I believe your strategy is a loser but I guess time will tell. Fighting for this stuff isn't my lot in life, I'm just the guy behind the keyboard providing the commentary. I'm glad there are folks out there like Rinella that are waking up and fighting antis with a smarter strategy than arrogant idiocy because that clearly isn't working. In the end its probably all pissing into the wind if you study the demographic trends at all.

My strategy is to not engage in unwinnable emotional arguments.

You want to keep hunting alive? Keep the government coffers full. Make no mistake about it, the $25 billion that hunters spend annually does far more for hunting than sharing a chart on Facebook.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Your missing the point. The chart isnt about making non hunters use it and think differently. Its about getting hunters to think and act differently. If some hunters to start thinking about their actions and how they might be perceived by others, then its win for us. We can't afford the " screw you, I am right and what you think doesn't mean shit" mentality anymore. Because time and again its smashed in out face that what others think about our actions matters. They vote, we lose.

Sure, I can get on board with some of this. But I don't think that creating a chart to be shared on social media that judges hunters for participating in legal activities is the way to do it.

I see it being used as a tool by antis to share and say stuff like, "see, even these hunting guys don't think so and so should have done this". It just opens the door to keep the dialogue going.

Keep in mind, I'm not advocating for saying "screw you, I'll do what I want". I'm advocating for not engaging in unwinnable emotional debates where facts account for jack. Stop worrying about clicks and driving traffic to your site...let the outrage fade.

 

[Mattt]

The MeatEater sold out a few months back to a left wing anti 2nd Amendment Whack Job . This is what you get when that happens. I hate to say I told you so, but in my best Alabama HillBilly accent:
"I-TOJISO!!!!!!!"

No such thing as an Alabama hillbilly. We are from Tennessee

 

[Desk Jockey]

My strategy is to not engage in unwinnable emotional arguments.

You want to keep hunting alive? Keep the government coffers full. Make no mistake about it, the $25 billion that hunters spend annually does far more for hunting than sharing a chart on Facebook.

Hmmmm.

A couple of thoughts to toss in here.

1) Date seems confused - The hunt was 2011 as far as I can tell. Seems like the hunter commented to news outlets in 2015 and for some reason this made it back into the spot light up to the piers Morgan level in the last day or so.

2) while I agree with the above sentiment to some extent, I don’t think non-hunters or antis (I differentiate between the two groups) have a clear sense of the economic impact. If the antis do, they don’t seem to care and can exert enough political pressure to cause change in spite of any economic benefit. Pedals the bear getting shot leading to the shut down of the NJ bear season leading to the state now paying for more bear culls is a great examp,e of this in action.

3) as far as shooting the sleeping lion goes, I am ethically indifferent but practically I care in so far as it is used against hunting by the antis. Anything that galvanizes and energizes the other side of the argument doesn’t help hunters or hunting, regardless of whether it was legal or not. Complain about the antis all you want but if the nonhunters get swung to their side by the optics of videos like the sleeping lion, then we have damaged our own cause far more than we would have by a measure of self imposed restraint and we will lose. Bit by bit by bit, we will lose.