Maximum Mechanical Accuracy v. Acceptable Practical Accuracy

[Gentleman Harvester]

My .19 fiber will almost cover a .25”x.25” square at 10 yards. It’s completely covered at 20. At 30 I can’t hardly see it. At 40 it disappears. For this reason, unless you are using magnification, it probably isn’t reasonable to expect a linear grouping radius. If it is 1” at 10 yards, it should probably be 2.25” at 20, 3.75” at 30, 5.5” at 40, and 7 at 50”.

occasionally you may get lucky and do better than that, but from a consistent miss standpoint I wouldn’t expect to see the misses increase at a consistent, linear rate.

 

[dkime]

My .19 fiber will almost cover a .25”x.25” square at 10 yards. It’s completely covered at 20. At 30 I can’t hardly see it. At 40 it disappears. For this reason, unless you are using magnification, it probably isn’t reasonable to expect a linear grouping radius. If it is 1” at 10 yards, it should probably be 2.25” at 20, 3.75” at 30, 5.5” at 40, and 7 at 50”.

occasionally you may get lucky and do better than that, but from a consistent miss standpoint I wouldn’t expect to see the misses increase at a consistent, linear rate.

Most target archers use an aiming reference larger than that of whatever game they’re aiming at, my black dot covers up far more than The X ring of a 5 spot face and as long as I’m doing my part I can rattle off 60 of em. It’s intentionally larger, the more you try and aim your bow the less accurate you’re gonna be. I tell the folks I work with that bows were designed to be shot; not aimed.


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[Gentleman Harvester]

Most target archers use an aiming reference larger than that of whatever game they’re aiming at, my black dot covers up far more than The X ring of a 5 spot face and as long as I’m doing my part I can rattle off 60 of em. It’s intentionally larger, the more you try and aim your bow the less accurate you’re gonna be. I tell the folks I work with that bows were designed to be shot; not aimed.


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And my guess is that your typical miss at 10 yards is a whole lot less than 1” too. Right?

 

[MattB]

Strive for the 1"/10 yards standard. Don't get stuck in a mental masturbation rat hole.

 

[dkime]

And my guess is that your typical miss at 10 yards is a whole lot less than 1” too. Right?

What’s a miss? Lol

I’m only kidding.

To tell ya the truth I spend such little time shooting anything inside 20-30 it’s really hard to tell. I strive for 1.5” at 50 and call it good, that’s about all I’m capable of with a hunting setup.


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[5MilesBack]

My .19 fiber will almost cover a .25”x.25” square at 10 yards. It’s completely covered at 20. At 30 I can’t hardly see it. At 40 it disappears. For this reason, unless you are using magnification, it probably isn’t reasonable to expect a linear grouping radius. If it is 1” at 10 yards, it should probably be 2.25” at 20, 3.75” at 30, 5.5” at 40, and 7 at 50”.

Spatial Orientation........it all depends on what else you see around the outside of your pin at whatever distance you're shooting. Some of the best long range groups I've ever shot were with .029" pins. As long as you visually have rings outside of your pin and your bow is setup for arrows to hit behind the center of your pins, it's real easy to "spatially orient" where that pin is in relation to those other rings........regardless how small the center rings are. The same goes for shooting an animal.......I don't care if my pin covers the entire vitals. As long as I'm set up for arrows hitting behind the "middle" my pins, then I will hit the middle of the vitals.

But ya, if you're shooting a blank target face with a 1" orange sticker on it at 60 yards, then you're not going to be as accurate with your aiming.

 

[Page Master]

But ya, if you're shooting a blank target face with a 1" orange sticker on it at 60 yards, then you're not going to be as accurate with your aiming.

What do you mean?

 

[N2TRKYS]

I shoot at quarter sized dots. If I’m not within an inch of it at 50 yards, then I’m having a terrible day or it’s very windy.

 

[dkime]

What do you mean?

When he refers to spatial orientation, (some folks call it visual proprioception) hes talking about having the ability to use the features of the target around your pin to keep it centered. It takes a huge mental shift but I would say that most bowhunters could benefit from the change. A LOT of folks tend to try and put their pin where they want it to go, but then peek over the top of their pin, or to the side, or to the other side, just to make sure that they are holding on whatever it is theyre trying to hit. So on a blank bale, you have nothing to reference off of to keep your pin centered on what you're trying to hit. You just know you're shooting a completely naked bale because the pin is covering youre spot. You'd be better off shooting at a 3-4" spot at this distance or nothing at all. IMHO

If you're shooting a 900 round at distance, you're using the features of the target to hit the center. Your eye has a natural tendency to be attracted to the center of circles, or to a differing contrast, and where the eye goes the body will follow. When I am shooting my mantra on setup is "Get it close, get it gone" Really tiny groups don't come from super tiny holding patterns and putting it in the same spot every time, they come from shooting the shot the exact same every time. Like I had mentioned earlier, its often easier to shoot with a large aiming reticle because it blocks the contrast of a chewed up target. Do I do that with hunting? Nope, I shoot a .019 up pin for everything and most of the time I have no idea where its at on the animal when it goes off. I know its close, but all of my focus is on where the arrow needs to go and shot execution.

Like everyone here has mentioned, I think the average guy with a busy schedule can strive for the 1"/10yd rule but frankly it doesn't take a whole lot to get there, and that's completely acceptable hunting accuracy for 95% of the hunting situations we're in.

 

[N2TRKYS]

You'd be better off shooting at a 3-4" spot at this distance or nothing at all. IMHO

Unfortunately, I guess all the target manufacturers agree with you cause they put these dang large dots on all their targets.

 

[dkime]

Unfortunately, I guess all the target manufacturers agree with you cause they put these dang large dots on all their targets.

My issue is more with the color than anything, that Rhinehart 18-1 is easier to shoot at 80 than it is at 20 for me.


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[Page Master]

When he refers to spatial orientation, (some folks call it visual proprioception) hes talking about having the ability to use the features of the target around your pin to keep it centered. It takes a huge mental shift but I would say that most bowhunters could benefit from the change. A LOT of folks tend to try and put their pin where they want it to go, but then peek over the top of their pin, or to the side, or to the other side, just to make sure that they are holding on whatever it is theyre trying to hit. So on a blank bale, you have nothing to reference off of to keep your pin centered on what you're trying to hit. You just know you're shooting a completely naked bale because the pin is covering youre spot. You'd be better off shooting at a 3-4" spot at this distance or nothing at all. IMHO

If you're shooting a 900 round at distance, you're using the features of the target to hit the center. Your eye has a natural tendency to be attracted to the center of circles, or to a differing contrast, and where the eye goes the body will follow. When I am shooting my mantra on setup is "Get it close, get it gone" Really tiny groups don't come from super tiny holding patterns and putting it in the same spot every time, they come from shooting the shot the exact same every time. Like I had mentioned earlier, its often easier to shoot with a large aiming reticle because it blocks the contrast of a chewed up target. Do I do that with hunting? Nope, I shoot a .019 up pin for everything and most of the time I have no idea where its at on the animal when it goes off. I know its close, but all of my focus is on where the arrow needs to go and shot execution.

Like everyone here has mentioned, I think the average guy with a busy schedule can strive for the 1"/10yd rule but frankly it doesn't take a whole lot to get there, and that's completely acceptable hunting accuracy for 95% of the hunting situations we're in.

I agree with that. My 3 pins are .19-.19-.10. I don't use the .10 until 50+ yards and usually prefer my middle yellow .19 pin. I think a lot of archers stare their pin into the center of whatever they want to shoot, and like you said, peek around it to make sure it is still there, when they should be staring at whatever it is they want to shoot and staring through the surprise release.

When I do my sighting tapes, I use a big red QT lid, because even at 50 my .10 is smaller than the lid and I don't have any urge to ''peak''. I also find I don't have a tendency to peak when shooting 3D or animals as the spot I am shooting at doesn't usually pop for me.

 

[KyleR1985]

Another overlooked aspect here, is worrying about missing targets completely. I think this accounts for a huge portion of "target panic" at a home range. The average archer doesn't have the funds, space, or desire to move things around for a 4' square target or hay bale. They're typically shooting at an 18" square block of foam. I've caught myself, and have watched others shooting, getting antsy and worrying about losing a 10-20.00 arrow missing that block at 60 or 80 yards. Even if that accounts for just a 5-10% decrease in focus, that can translate to huge increases in group size. Not because the arrow goes off the course you send it on, but because you're adding noise to the signal between being on target and releasing.

I noticed a significant decrease in group size, and especially in true flyers, when I added a 4' square backdrop to my target. Knowing I could make my worst shot possible at 100 yards, and not lose an arrow or kill the neighbor, tightened things up considerably.

Removing distractions (noise) is a big key to consistency. Some people are good at blocking out noise. Some people need to work harder to remove noise. I have found over the years watching a bunch of hunting partners make shots - I can usually tell by their demeanor during draw, anchor, and release whether they'll hit what they're aiming at. A well executed shot is as obvious to the shooter as it is to a fellow shooter watching them shoot.

Not to get too off topic, but I recommend archery to inside cats who are looking for outside activities to help them improve focus/paying attention in their everyday life.

 

[N2TRKYS]

My issue is more with the color than anything, that Rhinehart 18-1 is easier to shoot at 80 than it is at 20 for me.


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I bought the 18-1 target and hate it with a passion. I can’t stand the size of the dots and the different “sides” that it has. I got it for a song so I guess it’ll do ok for chrono checks and such.

 

[5MilesBack]

What do you mean?

Put it in context with the rest of what I wrote.........and if your pin is completely covering that 1" sticker at 60 yards (it will be) then you have no idea where the sticker is behind your pin. It's going to be real hard to stack arrows together without anything to consistently judge where that dot is under your pin.

 

[Page Master]

Put it in context with the rest of what I wrote.........and if your pin is completely covering that 1" sticker at 60 yards (it will be) then you have no idea where the sticker is behind your pin. It's going to be real hard to stack arrows together without anything to consistently judge where that dot is under your pin.

I understand how some would have that issue. But there is always a reference point.