Matt Rinella for president

[deertrout]

This is what I know is true beyond a shadow of a doubt- the best places to hunt and fish are the places you find before everyone else. The hard to reach places, the overlooked places, the undiscovered places. They're all great until word gets out, and then despite all of the extra advocates for them, they only go downhill. When they go uphill, they're just as bad because we turn them into something artificial and it's not the same.

A great example is your neighborhood big name trout stream. In my case, it's the Au Sable in northern MI. There is no doubt that the trout population today is healthier than its been in 100 years. A big reason for that is because of all of the conservation work done there over the last 100 years. I should point out that that was necessary after we exterpated the Grayling and really had no choice but to turn it into a trout stream. Those early trout had a rough time as we destroyed the habitat from logging practices. So things really couldn't have been worse, i.e., things kinda had to get better. The conservation sure helped, though, and I'll be the first to say that the Au Sable is a river you don't want to mess with or you will have a hornets nest of anglers and lawyers to deal with.

But of the dozen or so blue ribbon trout streams we have in this area, the Au Sable is the last place I will fish. It's a circus, you might be fishing, but you're not fishing. Leap frogging boats for entire 8 hour floats (even at night), other anglers nonchalantly waving at you as they wade through the hole you're resting, fish getting put down before they start really feeding, etc. It's a beautiful river, but it's not wild anymore, it's our idea of what a wild river is supposed to be like, and I can feel the difference whether I can put it into words or not.

How about a hunting example? I was in WY the last week of archery antelope this year with two friends. Felt like we had the whole unit to ourselves the first 5 days of the trip. But the day before the gun opener people started showing up. They weren't even hunting yet and it was like someone flipped a switch and turned the antelope off. We went from 10-15 stalks a day to maybe 3 or 4, and those 3 or 4 were in the overlooked or hard to get to places. I filled my tag in archery and when I did it felt like all of us would get one with a bow. The next guy didn't fill a rag till day two of rifle, and the next guy needed another couple days.

Nope, I'll take the selfish route on this one. A small number of people getting into a truly genuine outdoors experience is better than a lot of people getting tickets to a petting zoo and turning things into a trout pond.

 

[ddd-shooter]

This is what I know is true beyond a shadow of a doubt- the best places to hunt and fish are the places you find before everyone else. The hard to reach places, the overlooked places, the undiscovered places. They're all great until word gets out, and then despite all of the extra advocates for them, they only go downhill. When they go uphill, they're just as bad because we turn them into something artificial and it's not the same.

A great example is your neighborhood big name trout stream. In my case, it's the Au Sable in northern MI. There is no doubt that the trout population today is healthier than its been in 100 years. A big reason for that is because of all of the conservation work done there over the last 100 years. I should point out that that was necessary after we exterpated the Grayling and really had no choice but to turn it into a trout stream. Those early trout had a rough time as we destroyed the habitat from logging practices. So things really couldn't have been worse, i.e., things kinda had to get better. The conservation sure helped, though, and I'll be the first to say that the Au Sable is a river you don't want to mess with or you will have a hornets nest of anglers and lawyers to deal with.

But of the dozen or so blue ribbon trout streams we have in this area, the Au Sable is the last place I will fish. It's a circus, you might be fishing, but you're not fishing. Leap frogging boats for entire 8 hour floats (even at night), other anglers nonchalantly waving at you as they wade through the hole you're resting, fish getting put down before they start really feeding, etc. It's a beautiful river, but it's not wild anymore, it's our idea of what a wild river is supposed to be like, and I can feel the difference whether I can put it into words or not.

How about a hunting example? I was in WY the last week of archery antelope this year with two friends. Felt like we had the whole unit to ourselves the first 5 days of the trip. But the day before the gun opener people started showing up. They weren't even hunting yet and it was like someone flipped a switch and turned the antelope off. We went from 10-15 stalks a day to maybe 3 or 4, and those 3 or 4 were in the overlooked or hard to get to places. I filled my tag in archery and when I did it felt like all of us would get one with a bow. The next guy didn't fill a rag till day two of rifle, and the next guy needed another couple days.

Nope, I'll take the selfish route on this one. A small number of people getting into a truly genuine outdoors experience is better than a lot of people getting tickets to a petting zoo and turning things into a trout pond.

Amen

 

[KurtR]

Please consider that someone showing up to 100,000 acres they previously didn't know existed may have a different perspective on access than the dude that has been hunting it for most of their lives.

That spot he is talking about you can go to now till January 31 the end of season and hunt every day and not see another person. Most locals don’t even mess with it out there so pretty sure one would be to worked up. Winter is about to put a beat down on the birds so it would be doing them a favor to kill as many roosters as possible so they don’t start killing the hens when food gets tough.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

It simple. Look at everything in history. The more people interested in whatever thing “it” is, the better it gets.

Sure you’ll also get more idiots, and you’ll also have more competition. BUT, if more and more people are interested, that means more knowledgeable people on the subject, which means improved conservation and management, which in turn leads to improved experiences for all..

The ONLY reason I can see being against it is pure selfish reasoning. People don’t want more competition, or to have to work any harder.

Another positive of MORE people being into the industry, that means more advancement technologically. The next generation of innovators are essential.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only way your inexperienced ramblings would make any sense if you were to replace hunting with say something like jiu jitsu.

The more people are interested and competing the better it gets.
This is not the case with wildlife and wild places. Limited resource that in a lot places is redlining with pressure causing reproductive rates of game to decrease. Just ONE example.

I say this with all due respect and hopes that you and some others on here go experience a place like Colorado OTC.

 

[Dos Perros]

That spot he is talking about you can go to now till January 31 the end of season and hunt every day and not see another person. Most locals don’t even mess with it out there so pretty sure one would be to worked up. Winter is about to put a beat down on the birds so it would be doing them a favor to kill as many roosters as possible so they don’t start killing the hens when food gets tough.

It's one example. The larger point was that lots of us, most of us I'd bet, have been seeing more and more folks, and less and less opportunity, over the years. I can say that with confidence for myself and my friend group. Deer, turkeys, ducks, birds, it's all the same.

 

[KurtR]

It's one example. The larger point was that lots of us, most of us I'd bet, have been seeing more and more folks, and less and less opportunity, over the years. I can say that with confidence for myself and my friend group. Deer, turkeys, ducks, birds, it's all the same.

Me and my friends have had the opposite here. As we have gotten older its easier to get permission from knowing more people and less people hunting around here especially ducks and geese. We only got told no once this year but it was because out buddy had already got it on that feed. After deer season its pretty much a full go any where for pheasants as people have lost interest and now the lake is froze most will be ice fishing. I have went from deer/antelope hunting on just public land to almost all my deer hunting is now on private. Getting into dog games i have multiple invites to hunt ducks down south just dont have enough time to make it all work. I will elk hunt again when i draw here but the juice just isnt worth the squeeze anymore. I can go to Arkansas on a couple fully guided duck hunts vs one week of otc elk hunt in Idaho for the same price.

 

[Dos Perros]

Me and my friends have had the opposite here. As we have gotten older its easier to get permission from knowing more people and less people hunting around here especially ducks and geese. We only got told no once this year but it was because out buddy had already got it on that feed. After deer season its pretty much a full go any where for pheasants as people have lost interest and now the lake is froze most will be ice fishing. I have went from deer/antelope hunting on just public land to almost all my deer hunting is now on private. Getting into dog games i have multiple invites to hunt ducks down south just dont have enough time to make it all work. I will elk hunt again when i draw here but the juice just isnt worth the squeeze anymore. I can go to Arkansas on a couple fully guided duck hunts vs one week of otc elk hunt in Idaho for the same price.

The lease game has found it's way north from Texas here. Most anything worth a dang is leased. If it's not leased it's because someone (family) still hunts it. For sure there are places and I have gotten permission before, just not the norm.

The public is plain nuts compared to what it was 10 years ago. More hunters and less places to go. If you read the comments submitted to KDWP in hunter surveys it's a whole lot of "Lost my hunting spot, hunted the public, lotsa folks, no animals."

Is your contention that everyone experiencing this is crazy, or wrong?

 

[KurtR]

The lease game has found it's way north from Texas here. Most anything worth a dang is leased. If it's not leased it's because someone (family) still hunts it. For sure there are places and I have gotten permission before, just not the norm.

The public is plain nuts compared to what it was 10 years ago. More hunters and less places to go. If you read the comments submitted to KDWP in hunter surveys it's a whole lot of "Lost my hunting spot, hunted the public, lotsa folks, no animals."

Is your contention that everyone experiencing this is crazy, or wrong?

Its my contention it falls some where in the middle. Its always the people on both ends of the spectrum who make the most noise. Its never as bad as it seems or good. I know where i live other than the out doors there isnt much else to do and thats the main reason i live here. Being 100 miles from the nearest wallmart i dont have alot of convenience that alot of people need and want who live in big population centers. Also the state does a good job of catering to residents other than pheasant hunting and archery. Residents pretty much come first and word is the otc archery tags for nr are on the chopping block. As it should be thats why when other states put their residents first I have no problem if you live there you should have it way better than nr by a wide margin

 

[TheCougar]

What has been deleted off of this thread?

What isn’t on Rokslide is telling. Not a single link or hit for the guilty plea. I get that these threads get derailed immediately and that’s probably why. @robby denning and the rest of the mods have the unenviable job of policing the forums, and they hate certain threads because it’s only a matter of time before it turns into a dumpster fire. However, it seems capitulation to threats from lawyers when we omit the truth. Please post the news story and the court documents so that it is available for those who want to read, lock the thread for comments, and make it a sticky at the top of the forums. Make it available and lock it down so you don’t have to babysit the internet or deal with drama.

Our first loyalty is to truth, not people. Those companies and folks who defend people over the truth have lost a lot of respect in my book. It’s an eternal truth: “Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”” Rokslide is a great community because, by and large, we don’t tolerate such behavior and the staff works hard to keep it that way. I’m hoping we can post factual hunting related information without reprisal or increasing the demands of the mods.

***EDITED TO REMOVE MY POOR WORD CHOICE.***. This is why I don’t participate in the internet any more…

 

[robby denning]

What isn’t on Rokslide is telling. Not a single link or hit for the guilty plea. I get that these threads get derailed immediately and that’s probably why. @robby denning and the rest of the mods have the unenviable job of policing the forums, and they hate certain threads because it’s only a matter of time before it turns into a dumpster fire. However, it reeks of complicity and capitulation to threats from lawyers when we hide the truth. Please post the news story and the court documents so that it is available for those who want to read, lock the thread for comments, and make it a sticky at the top of the forums. Make it available and lock it down so you don’t have to babysit the internet or deal with drama.

Our first loyalty is to truth, not people. Those companies and folks who defend people over the truth have lost a lot of respect in my book. It’s an eternal truth: “Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.””

Complicit?

if people are breaking the law, that’s on them. We let the law take care of them. Don‘t accuse us please.

Lawyers?

We’re protected by Section 230 but it’s a huge time and money suck to deal with them. Plus you don’t realize they come after the members posting slander and it’s hilarious when these brave keyboard warriors are suddenly begging us (but only by PM of course) to take down their threads/posts—again another time and money suck.

The offenders all have social media and sponsors. If you want them cancelled, go there. And it’s more effective than somebody posting endlessly here. We didn’t sign up to be the internet police.

and per our rules, we don’t want slander on this site and every time we allow those threads to stand, especially when they’ve only been charged and not convicted, that’s where they end up. (The thread from earlier this fall on an asuumed guilty influencer was ripe with member lies) Then we have to be the fact checkers.

No thanks.

and per your Bible verse, we’re not making company with these proven offenders. That is another unfounded accusation, just what we’re trying to avoid on here.


thinking about locking this thread here so I don’t have to retype all this again

 

[TheCougar]

Complicit?

if people are breaking the law, that’s on them. We let the law take care of them. Don‘t accuse us please.

Lawyers?

We’re protected by Section 230 but it’s a huge time and money suck to deal with them. Plus you don’t realize they come after the members posting slander and it’s hilarious when these brave keyboard warriors are suddenly begging us (but only by PM of course) to take down their threads/posts—again another time and money suck.

The offenders all have social media and sponsors. If you want them cancelled, go there. And it’s more effective than somebody posting endlessly here. We didn’t sign up to be the internet police.

and per our rules, we don’t want slander on this site and every time we allow those threads to stand, especially when they’ve only been charged and not convicted, that’s where they end up. (The thread from earlier this fall on an asuumed guilty influencer was ripe with member lies) Then we have to be the fact checkers.

No thanks.

and per your Bible verse, we’re not making company with these proven offenders. That is another unfounded accusation, just what we’re trying to avoid on here.


thinking about locking this thread here so I don’t have to retype all this again

Robby, sorry if I came off the wrong way. Perhaps complicit wasn’t the right word and I didn’t mean it in the way it sounds like it was received. I meant it more along the lines of “acquiescence” - basically that it’s too much trouble to have it posted, so don’t post it at all. I’m not trying to be a brave keyboard warrior, nor am I engaging in or advocating slander. I intended no accusations, only asking for a hunting story to be posted on a hunting forum. People can read for themselves and come to their own conclusions. An open source news story and unsealed/available court documents aren’t slander. Other than Rokslide, I’m not on any social media, so I can’t unfollow anyone and I didn’t see anywhere that I advocated for cancelling anyone. Posting a link and locking out the comments isn’t an option? That’s a serious question, not a barb.

Also, and I want to make this crystal clear - my comment at the end was in no way directed at you or Rokslide. I was talking about others who have cast their lot with people who have proven themselves to be poor stewards of the hunting community and whose accountability is forfeit. I understand that you and your moderators are caught in the middle of trying to keep the wolves at bay and enable as much license as possible on the forums. If I came off as accusing you as being one of those, it was not my intent, and you have my sincere apology. I thought about sending you a PM, but if anyone else took offense to my post, as you did, I need to publicly own it.

 

[robby denning]

Robby, sorry if I came off the wrong way. Perhaps complicit wasn’t the right word and I didn’t mean it in the way it sounds like it was received. I meant it more along the lines of “acquiescence” - basically that it’s too much trouble to have it posted, so don’t post it at all. I’m not trying to be a brave keyboard warrior, nor am I engaging in or advocating slander. I intended no accusations, only asking for a hunting story to be posted on a hunting forum. People can read for themselves and come to their own conclusions. An open source news story and unsealed/available court documents aren’t slander. Other than Rokslide, I’m not on any social media, so I can’t unfollow anyone and I didn’t see anywhere that I advocated for cancelling anyone. Posting a link and locking out the comments isn’t an option? That’s a serious question, not a barb.

Also, and I want to make this crystal clear - my comment at the end was in no way directed at you or Rokslide. I was talking about others who have cast their lot with people who have proven themselves to be poor stewards of the hunting community and whose accountability is forfeit. I understand that you and your moderators are caught in the middle of trying to keep the wolves at bay and enable as much license as possible on the forums. If I came off as accusing you as being one of those, it was not my intent, and you have my sincere apology. I thought about sending you a PM, but if anyone else took offense to my post, as you did, I need to publicly own it.

Hey man, I appreciate the clarification. Apology accepted.

Yes we’re in a tough spot with all this stuff and if it was just court documents, after a case is settled, we might be able to handle that.

But even when we lock the thread, people go start another one.

I respect your opinion, and we take it under advisement, but for right now, what I posted above is how we’re gonna run the site.

And you don’t need social media to call a sponsor and tell them your thoughts about anoyone they support. And it probably holds more weight than some thread on some forum that they would ignore anyways.