Match bullets vs early hunting bullets

[AZ_Hunter]

I have used this analogy before, but I’ll repeat myself here.

Heavy for caliber match bullets work differently than bullets of yesteryear because they are longer.

If you imagine two empty beer cans, one is standard size and the other is 18” tall, and step on them smash them, it takes longer to smash the 18” one.

The longer heavy for caliber match bullets may start to frag just as quickly as an old school soft point, but because of their length, there is much more bullet left by the time it has penetrated into the vitals and completes its fragmentation. Then of course the higher mass, means there is more material to frag and therefore increasing terminal effect.

Same thing applies comparing varmit bullets to heavy for cal match bullets.

 

[Southern Lights]

It doesn’t. The 178gr ELD-M does, and the 174gr ELD-VT really does.

I can't comment on the other bullets. But the 178AMAX (ELD-M), is phenomenal in .30 cal. Almost makes too big of a mess.

 

[Southern Lights]

Is this with a 140 eld m? That exact thing is what I didn’t like about the 185 Berger.

Hoping the 208 ELDm upsets more quickly.

I have only shot smaller fallow with the 140 ELD-M. They are a small bodied deer (I'm usually culling does or yearlings not larger bucks). At closer range I just noticed they penetrate great, but don't put things down as fast as the 130SST from the 270 which explodes internally. The 270 is traveling almost 400fps faster at muzzle though. It's just a different kettle of fish.

However I don't have any doubt the 140s can do the business and would happily use them vs. any "hunting" bullet in the 6.5 without a second thought. I also shoot them in matches so you can use one bullet for training and hunting.

 

[Lou270]

Where are you drawing these beliefs from? This last one particularly is ridiculous- no, only at high impact velocities do bullets upset with a very short neck length. And, lots of bullets have longer permanent TC’s than other bullets (TMK vs. Berger VLD). What you are writing is factually not true.






I’m not sure I can decipher what you were trying to say here- but in legit ballistics testing and live tissue; the same caliber, at the same jacket thickness and same impact velocity- the longer (read: heavier) bullet penetrates deeper. It simply has more bullet to fragment and more bullet mass to continue.

I don’t know if we are talking past each other or what but I am not talking about neck length. I am saying a bullet does not slowly expand during penetration. This is very old fudd lore along with my bullet is going too fast to expand. Neck length can be longer but that does not mean once a bullet starts deforming it is some gradual process. And, not all bullets have long neck lengths even at longer ranges. Hollow points (incl tipped) may as they need to fill the cavity, build pressure, and burst. OTMs can be much longer as may need yaw. Normal softpoints still have short necks because they already are “filled” with lead though typically have a higher impact velocity requirement

As to your second item you are missing the point. Let us take 6.5 cm. You take a 120 tipped match bullet and run 3000 fps. That bullet may give insufficient penetration for your purpose. You take a 150 tipped match bullet at 2600 fps and gives sufficient penetration. Now shoot the 120 in a 6.5 grendel at 2400 fps and you probably get sufficient penetration again with that bullet though maybe smaller wound. Impact velocity matters more than SD in soft bullets is my point. This reduction in velocity comes naturally when you use a heavy for caliber bullet.

Lou

 

[Teaman1]

LISTEN — Why Smaller Calibers May Be Better for Big Game Hunting (Part 2) – The Experience Project

Great listen, just finished part 1 and 2.
Enjoy listening to Form on shoot 2 hunt.
Leaning hard towards the 220 eld x

 

[letrbuck]

It doesn’t. The 178gr ELD-M does, and the 174gr ELD-VT really does.

How is the 174 on game? Too much? Do you have a good sample size yet?

 

[Formidilosus]

How is the 174 on game? Too much? Do you have a good sample size yet?

Most will find it way too much.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

This is also likely why Hornady, for ex, will not recommend something like their eldm 7prc load for hunting.

but they do:

225 gr ELD® Match - Hornady Law Enforcement

The 300 PRC 225 ELD® Match TAP Precision® was designed and adopted to fulfill a specific need within the Department of Defense by increasing hit probability and providing exceptional terminal performance from 0 – 2000 yards. This cartridge is an effici...

www.hornadyle.com

178 gr ELD® MATCH TAP PRECISION® - Hornady Law Enforcement

Hornady® 300 WIN MAG 178 gr. ELD® MATCH TAP PRECISION® ammunition was designed as an improvement on the 178 gr. A-MAX TAP PRECISION® load by incorporating the new ELD® Match bullet.

www.hornadyle.com

 

[Lou270]

but they do:

225 gr ELD® Match - Hornady Law Enforcement

The 300 PRC 225 ELD® Match TAP Precision® was designed and adopted to fulfill a specific need within the Department of Defense by increasing hit probability and providing exceptional terminal performance from 0 – 2000 yards. This cartridge is an effici...

www.hornadyle.com

178 gr ELD® MATCH TAP PRECISION® - Hornady Law Enforcement

Hornady® 300 WIN MAG 178 gr. ELD® MATCH TAP PRECISION® ammunition was designed as an improvement on the 178 gr. A-MAX TAP PRECISION® load by incorporating the new ELD® Match bullet.

www.hornadyle.com

What does deparrment of defense have to do with hunting?

 

[swavescatter]

What does deparrment of defense have to do with hunting?

I haven't clicked those links, but my guess is that both industries are interested in the efficient killing of mammals.

 

[northernalpine]

Using the eld M this fall, so trying to see for myself, but trying to understand the difference between some match bullets and early hunting bullets in terminal performance.

The other folks have put out good insight already and there are piles of material to read or listen to. I would add ELD-M or similar bullets that fragment early after penetration are incredibly efficient in damaging internal soft tissue. I think technically the ELD-X is considered a delayed expansion compared to the ELD-Ms, with an additional 2-4” of penetration before expansion/fragmentation, but are comparable in performance.

I will also offer a tangible note that, in my experience, animals taken with match bullets require additional scrutiny when processing meat, due to the fragmenting nature. ELD-Xs, while closer to a hybrid of match and traditional bullet, still fragment at high velocities; the four animals I shot inside of 200 yards last year had copper shards spread further than expected but the terminal efficacy was equally impressive.

I imagine you’re going to have a great season if you get on animals