Match bullet jacket thickness

[JGRaider]

You are welcome to my information. And I will even provide it without sarcasm.

I killed four deer with 0.264 136 gr Scenar -L bullets, and that was enough for me to make my decisions on the bullet. All four did pretty much the same thing. The bullet tumbles, crushing the hollow nose cavity and then fragments. All four shots were on whitetail does. Three were broadside shots behind the shoulder that tumbled without expansion or fragmentation through the onside lung and heart area and fragmented out the offside lung. The fourth was chest shot on a doe facing me that tumbled intact through the entire heart lung cavity and started to fragment at the diaphragm, liver and rumen. Muzzle velocity was about 2500 fps and all shots were between 50 and 120 yards. Average distance travelled after the shot was about 100 yards, with a range of 60-150 yards.

I don’t have wound channel pictures, but the broadside shots were all a bullet sized entry, a slightly larger hole in the onside lung with some keyholing, and about a 2 to 2.5 inch hole through the offside lung with about a 1-1.5” exit. All of broadside shots were slightly behind the heart. The head-on shot was a bullet-sized entry that went between the lungs and tumbled, severing the arteries above the heart. There was a sideways bullet hole through the diaphragm and the bullet fragmented from there ending up in the rumen with no exit.

Does Scenars kill deer? Yes, but they can sometimes run a ways after being shot if it’s not a CNS shot. My preference for deer sized game is a bit more front-loading to the wound channel, which takes out both lungs and shortens the need for tracking.

I view Scenars as a step up from monos and bonded bullets in terms of killing potential. But I am not generally a fan of tumble-to-fragment bullets (e.g. Scenars and Bergers) as I think they are slightly less predictable and have a longer neck to their wound channels. Tipped fragmenting match bullets tend to be more consistent across a wider range of velocities, tend to have lower minimum velocities to fragment, and provide a more football shaped wound channel with a shorter neck.

When I kill something, I process all my own game so I know exactly what a bullet is doing. Your mileage may vary. And you are welcome to ignore all of this if you choose. My impression is that you tend to post here for your own edification and aren’t really here to learn from anyone else.

I always intend to learn something of which I have no experience but if I happen to have alot of experience on a subject then yes, I rely on what my real world experiences have told me. Can't imagine anyone thinking differently. With regard to what you posted, you refer to an entirely different bullet (136 Scenar L) than what I was referring to (139 Scenar), so you really have nothing to dispute what my experiences are. The 139 doesn't "keyhole" or "tumble" either for that matter.

As far as "they can sometimes run a ways after being shot if it's not a CNS shot" statement, that's true of any bullet. If you've hunted enough, and killed enough game with different bullets you would know that.

 

[ElPollo]

I always intend to learn something of which I have no experience but if I happen to have alot of experience on a subject then yes, I rely on what my real world experiences have told me. Can't imagine anyone thinking differently. With regard to what you posted, you refer to an entirely different bullet (136 Scenar L) than what I was referring to (139 Scenar), so you really have nothing to dispute what my experiences are. The 139 doesn't "keyhole" or "tumble" either for that matter.

As far as "they can sometimes run a ways after being shot if it's not a CNS shot" statement, that's true of any bullet. If you've hunted enough, and killed enough game with different bullets you would know that.

If you’ve used any Scenar that extensively and think they don’t tumble and fragment, you really don’t know as much as you think you do. All of them work that way, as do Bergers and DTACs. As they tumble, the big empty hollow point cavity smashes and the jacket starts to come apart. The only difference between the 139 and the 136-L is minor differences in the bullet shape to improve the BC on the latter. You can look all of this stuff up on the internet or take a look inside any of the animals you shoot. But I’m guessing you are a wheel up on a side-side, toss it in the back and take it to someone else to deal with the messy stuff sort of guy.

 

[Taudisio]

What I do know is they make a caliber-sized entry, and a quarter sized exit which is as close to perfect as you can get IMO. Game dies very quickly when the bullet is put where it's supposed to and I have enough experience with it by now that I don't obsess over miscellaneous nonsense like wound channels, BC comparisons, etc.

Sounds like every heavy for caliber bullet, bonded bullet, and partition that I have ever used or seen used. I guess they are all perfect too.

 

[JGRaider]

The Nosler partition is the consumate hunting bullet, and has been kicking asss for well over 60 years. I do believe it is the best hunting bullet on the planet, and since the accubond performs almost exactly the same way on game, I'll put it up there with the partition.

There is no "perfect" hunting bullet but some perform much better than others that's for sure. I test bullets on feral hogs which are much tougher than any deer.

 

[JGRaider]

If you’ve used any Scenar that extensively and think they don’t tumble and fragment, you really don’t know as much as you think you do. All of them work that way, as do Bergers and DTACs. As they tumble, the big empty hollow point cavity smashes and the jacket starts to come apart. The only difference between the 139 and the 136-L is minor differences in the bullet shape to improve the BC on the latter. You can look all of this stuff up on the internet or take a look inside any of the animals you shoot. But I’m guessing you are a wheel up on a side-side, toss it in the back and take it to someone else to deal with the messy stuff sort of guy.

So at least you admit you've never used the 139 that I was referring to, so you're still just guessing. Of course they fragment, like every other non-mono on the planet. Tumble....uh negative. Guess again on field care.....I dress, clean, quarter every animal I intend to eat, then let my butcher buddy cut 'em up, except for backstrap and tenderloins that I get myself. I still don't oogle over wound channels and all that other nonsense. Not that I owe you any kind of explanation, but since I cull about 25 whitetail does a year, a buck or two, and a muley or two I give alot of them away to ranch hands, their buddy's, hunter's for the hungry, etc.

 

[ElPollo]

So at least you admit you've never used the 139 that I was referring to, so you're still just guessing. Of course they fragment, like every other non-mono on the planet. Tumble....uh negative. Guess again on field care.....I dress, clean, quarter every animal I intend to eat, then let my butcher buddy cut 'em up, except for backstrap and tenderloins that I get myself. I still don't oogle over wound channels and all that other nonsense. Not that I owe you any kind of explanation, but since I cull about 25 whitetail does a year, a buck or two, and a muley or two I give alot of them away to ranch hands, their buddy's, hunter's for the hungry, etc.

 

[ElPollo]

@JGRaider

 

[Reburn]

So at least you admit you've never used the 139 that I was referring to, so you're still just guessing. Of course they fragment, like every other non-mono on the planet. Tumble....uh negative. Guess again on field care.....I dress, clean, quarter every animal I intend to eat, then let my butcher buddy cut 'em up, except for backstrap and tenderloins that I get myself. I still don't oogle over wound channels and all that other nonsense. Not that I owe you any kind of explanation, but since I cull about 25 whitetail does a year, a buck or two, and a muley or two I give alot of them away to ranch hands, their buddy's, hunter's for the hungry, etc.

 

[ElPollo]

I am in awe of your memology.

 

[pilgrim7]

@JGRaider

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Is this Ron Spomer's burner account for after cocktail hour?