Mandatory Military Service

[wind gypsy]

Philosophical consistency being the name of the game, I'm kinda curious what the "skin in the game" and "service = citizenship" crowd would think about the idea of supporting, speaking hypothetically of course, a presidential candidate who is known to have been a draft dodger.

So far beyond just the president at this point. We're ruled by corrupt pedos, I can't see why we'd want to give them millions more forced servants. They abuse it enough with how they handle our taxes.

I cant understand how they still get people to volunteer to put their life on the line with it more out in the open than ever how compromised the parasites steering the ship are.

 

[dårlig jeger]

I cant understand how they still get people to volunteer to put their life on the line with these parasites steering the ship and it out in the open more than ever.

College is expensive. So are houses.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

College is expensive. So are houses.

No, people still believe in the country and the constitution. That was my reasoning, anyway. I could see the incompetents in charge, but I didn’t join for them.

 

[wind gypsy]

College is expensive. So are houses.

Everyone's situation is different but 4 years of career earnings and earning potential could offset free tuition and better mortgages pretty easily. And avoiding the risk getting treated like cannon fodder for pedos, Israel, and big corporations is a pretty valuable thing.

 

[Poser]

What historical strategic benefits are there?

Historically, having a strong ally in that region has had benefits in terms of the ability to project power throughout the region, utilizing air bases, proxy war deterrence etc. During the cold war, Israel was encountering mostly Soviet supplied weapons in their regional conflicts so they were an intelligence pipeline to the US regarding that tech. Regional intelligence sharing in general + weapons testing were also strategic.

 

[307]

No, people still believe in the country and the constitution. That was my reasoning, anyway. I could see the incompetents in charge, but I didn’t join for them.

There will never be, and probably has never been, a point where a significant percentage of people weren't whining about leadership.

Mandatory military service, no. Manadatory civil service of some sort, I can get behind that. Maybe make it a qualification to earn the right to vote. I hold the unpopular opinion that not everybody who is a citizen should have equal say in how the country is run.

 

[dårlig jeger]

Everyone's situation is different but 4 years of career earnings and earning potential could offset free tuition and better mortgages pretty easily. And avoiding the risk getting treated like cannon fodder for pedos, Israel, and big corporations is a pretty valuable thing.

I don't think you understand the difference. I made money in the military, as cannon fodder, then was essentially paid to get a masters degree. Then I bought a house with 0 down at 2.75 percent and no pmi. That's a lot of value, and, on average, a boost in career earnings.

I get what you are saying, just join a union or a trade and you'll be 4 years ahead, but that's more easily said than done some times/places and might not be enough to outweigh some other benefits.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

There will never be, and probably has never been, a point where a significant percentage of people weren't whining about leadership.

Mandatory military service, no. Manadatory civil service of some sort, I can get behind that. Maybe make it a qualification to earn the right to vote. I hold the unpopular opinion that not everybody who is a citizen should have equal say in how the country is run.

I agree with the last point, for sure.

On the larger topic of the thread, I really can’t get behind giving the government more power to control and indoctrinate people.

It baffles me how generally conservative people who don’t want the government to control their lives are happy to suggest turning 18-22 year olds over to them without their consent or against their will.

And it doesn’t really matter if it’s to go plant trees or go stack bodies. The government will still own them and have to be able to discipline them. And the government will still be composed of selfish and self-interested people.

The burden, as always, will fall on the dedicated people who believe in the country and constitution to mitigate the negatives that flow from those in charge.

 

[Yaremkiv]

So the claim essentially is; drug epidemic/homelessness exists (0.25% of US population) therefore everyone should be forced to spend a few years working for the US military. Mind filling in the massive leap in logic you got there?

 

[PopNFresh]

Maybe make it a qualification to earn the right to vote.

whole theory of rights are they're given by God not a government, they're yours to use not governments to grant

Regional intelligence sharing in general + weapons testing were also strategic.

Israel did plenty of sharing of our intelligence with Russia during the cold war when it served them

College is expensive. So are houses.

because we're inflating our money supply with constant wars, forced service makes wars easier to start whether just or not

 

[307]

It baffles me how generally conservative people who don’t want the government to control their lives are happy to suggest turning 18-22 year olds over to them without their consent or against their will.

A quick look around makes me believe that we are raising kids who are only interested in themselves and what their country can give to them. I think JFK had something or another to say about this idea.

 

[307]

Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.

Voting/participating in government isn't in the list. We seem to have made voting into an unalienable right, but is it???

 

[Q_Sertorius]

A quick look around makes me believe that we are raising kids who are only interested in themselves and what their country can give to them. I think JFK had something or another to say about this idea.

So, giving more government jobs to kids solves that problem?

No, it makes people more dependent on the government.

JFK’s sentiments sound great, but he was flat wrong. If you are looking for a government job, you are literally asking “what can the country do for me?”

 

[PopNFresh]

just on your premise forced military service would be against liberty

 

[JohnJohnson]

Historically, having a strong ally in that region has had benefits in terms of the ability to project power throughout the region, utilizing air bases

Like the bases we have in Qatar, Bahrain, Iraq, UAE, Jordan, Kuwait, Oman, and Saudi Arabia?

Regional intelligence sharing in general + weapons testing were also strategic.

Intelligence sharing. Like the intelligence that Jonathan Pollard and Ben-Ami Kadish shared?

It baffles me how generally conservative people who don’t want the government to control their lives are happy to suggest turning 18-22 year olds over to them without their consent or against their will.

For about 90%, "Don't Tread On Me" is literal. Don't tread on ME. You can tread on everyone else and I'll vote for you to have that power. Maybe give you some walkin'-around troops while I'm at it.

 

[307]

So, giving more government jobs to kids solves that problem?

No, it makes people more dependent on the government.

JFK’s sentiments sound great, but he was flat wrong. If you are looking for a government job, you are literally asking “what can the country do for me?”

A year of service isn't going to make a significant dent in how dependent people (already are) on the government.

Maybe make it the last year of high school type of thing...?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

A year of service isn't going to make a significant dent in how dependent people (already are) on the government.

What about all of the permanent positions to supervise and support the conscripts?

 

[Poser]

Like the bases we have in Qatar, Bahrain, Iraq, UAE, Jordan, Kuwait, Oman, and Saudi Arabia?

I'm saying "historically" there was some amount of justification of benefit. We didn't always have those bases and some amount of those bases got recently destroyed.

That being said, you don't have to convince me that the US should cut Israel loose. The relationship is, as of a late, a one way street with them suckering a sitting president into combat action that historically will likely be judged as the single greatest strategic blunder in modern American history.... all at the low cost of as much as a trillion dollars (+ interest) by the time you include damage to American basis, ordinance costs, loss of aircraft, not to mention some American lives and casualties as well as civilian loss of life on the ground. And, at the expense of global stability, skyrocketing fuel prices, inflation, depleted weapon stockpiles and confidence of the US Navy to maintain commerce on the high seas. This blunder started in 2018 when Trump 1.0 tore up the existing nuclear agreement and will continue for the foreseeable future. Even if this administration is able to negoitiate a slightly better deal, and it seems less likely by the day that it will even match the JCPOA (in fact, its looking to be a worse deal).... but let's suppose its slightly better. Is "slightly better" worth a trillion dollars + interest, loss of life, loss of critical weapon stockpiles, inflation, high fuel prices etc? No, it is not. It was a blunder, history will not be kind and Israel is just as culpable as anyone else.

 

[307]

What about all of the permanent positions to supervise and support the conscripts?

minor details

 

[2531usmc]

I'd like to see it for anyone 21 years of age or lower that committed a crime (gross misdemeanor and below). The military would straighten them out!

If they were problems in the civilian world, they would be problems in the military.