Mandatory Military Service

[Joel/AK]

I’ve waited a long time to talk shit to a man your rank. You ready for this, pappy? Don’t lie. Did you serve under Stormin’ Norman?

I have a CSM’s name tattooed on my hand as a reminder of how precious life is. The man did over 30 years in the infantry and was KIA on his last deployment. Dude was a role model to my delinquent ass and I think of him often.

Sad part and it makes me feel old is I served under stormin Norman. Time goes fast and often forgotten

 

[JohnJohnson]

Really . Lost? Not a single navy boat floating or a plane flying and we lost?????

Yes? That's not how winning a war has ever worked. You go into it with a goal and your success is based on whether you attain that goal. Or else we can go ahead and claim victory in Vietnam. We didn't achieve our goals and agreed to do negotiations because the Iranians had a lot of leverage. Trump said this stuff on camera three days ago.

None of the lessons learned from the Iran war are about us needing more troops.

1. Our Ford class carriers are incapable of operating in-theater and need an enormous overhaul to be useful. Good news is one of them is out of commission for 12-24 months due to a laundry fire which was probably intentionally set by our own troops.

2. Our missile interceptors aren't as good as everyone thought they were and our stockpile is extremely low. Great news is that our yearly production of THAAD interceptors is about 25-35 per year so we should be resupplied in a decade or two.

3. We seemingly have no answer to drone warfare despite seeing them used for years in the Ukraine war (some of the Russian drones were even supplied by Iran)

4. Related to point #2 we are incapable of defending our bases and allies in the region. Our naval base in Bahrain got absolutely wrecked as did many of our other bases. And our allies like the UAE got wrecked.

5. Related to the previous point, our missile interceptors are vulnerable. Those two THAAD arrays that got knocked out in Qatar were a big deal. We have 8 of those in the entire world and had to pull some out of South Korea to replace them (which royally pissed them off).

6. The Iranians shooting down so many of our drones/planes should raise some eyebrows, especially the F-35s that Iran shot down based on their heat signature. The publicly acknowledged figure is 24 drones and 18 crewed aircraft. The real number is much higher but even that low number is a lot of money and some of those aircraft are in short supply and not due to be replaced for 5-10 years.

7. We still don't even have full air superiority over Iran due to the number of planes we had shot down, most of the bombs we're using are standoff munitions. And because of that our global supply of Tomahawks is low enough that we just told Switzerland that we're not delivering the Tomahawks they paid us for but we're keeping their money.

And that's just off the top of my head. Our defense spending is a paragon of inefficiency and corporate welfare queens. The whole thing needs an overhaul, not more money or more troops.

 

[Robobiss]

Can confirm.

Yeet

 

[Joel/AK]

No denying our fleet is old. We cant build them as fast as other countries, we could but not gonna get into that right now.

Yup, had some aircraft shot down....it war, shidt happens. Luckily not to many lives lost, although 1 is too many.

Our objective was nuclear and we stopped that. We also didnt do too well on stopping the funding of proxies.

Im not a fan of any mideast wars, you cant win a war with modern technology against a religious ideology. What it takes, most Americans dont have a stomach for.

I do agree that we cant have a nuclear Iran
Oh and our fleet maybe old but the men and women do their jobs and we are the strongest military

 

[JohnJohnson]

Our objective was nuclear and we stopped that. We also didnt do too well on stopping the funding of proxies.

I do agree that we cant have a nuclear Iran

They weren't going for nukes in the first place (our own DNI who was appointed by Trump concluded that last year) but we did not, in any way, stop them from enriching. The current ceasefire is under the pledge that Iran will never work towards nuclear weapons. Which is literally, word for word, the exact same language from the JCPOA under Obama that Trump pulled out of. It's what they've consistently been saying for over two decades.

So we spent a bunch of money and got humiliated just to get back to a worse position compared to where we were before. But there were lessons to learn from this if someone was inclined to try to fix things in our military. Which no one is.

It absolutely staggers me that we were so caught off-guard by drone warfare when we've had front row seats to the problems they cause in Ukraine for years. And I'm honestly not sure how we're going to solve the asymmetry of missile cost to interceptor cost moving forward either. What this demonstrated to me is that even before weakening ourselves in this war, our ability to oppose China on the Taiwan issue is a laughable pipe dream.

 

[OsoMountain]

 

[Joel/AK]

They weren't going for nukes in the first place (our own DNI who was appointed by Trump concluded that last year) but we did not, in any way, stop them from enriching. The current ceasefire is under the pledge that Iran will never work towards nuclear weapons. Which is literally, word for word, the exact same language from the JCPOA under Obama that Trump pulled out of. It's what they've consistently been saying for over two decades.

So we spent a bunch of money and got humiliated just to get back to a worse position compared to where we were before. But there were lessons to learn from this if someone was inclined to try to fix things in our military. Which no one is.

It absolutely staggers me that we were so caught off-guard by drone warfare when we've had front row seats to the problems they cause in Ukraine for years. And I'm honestly not sure how we're going to solve the asymmetry of missile cost to interceptor cost moving forward either. What this demonstrated to me is that even before weakening ourselves in this war, our ability to oppose China on the Taiwan issue is a laughable pipe dream.

The drone thing im in the same thinking as you. We seriously dropped the ball on that one.

As for the rest, did you write the talking points for CNN and msdnc?

 

[average]

It was a pretty costly way to throw away any leverage we had. The whole thing is disgusting

 

[xsn10s]

I, as many on this forum served as volunteers. As a young infantry field grade officer, I had the privilege of working with the best young men this country has produced. Not all of them, but an overwhelming majority. I think mandatory military service would affect that negatively. It’s a privilege to have served voluntarily.

As a veteran I agree. Leave our military as an all-volunteer service. And I also believe the "stress" basic training taught us the value of our freedoms. Because for a short time we lost our freedoms during basic training. Even the freedom of personal space.

 

[2531usmc]

The bottom line with the entire Iran issue is that they were months away from building a nuclear weapon. If you’re unhappy now with the bombing results, just think about how unhappy you would be if Trump did nothing and Iran had the bomb.

 

[SikaSeeker]

Its incredible[& refreshing] to me how Americans on this forum seem much better tuned in to reality than many MAGA sympathetic in UK.

I snoop on a uk hunting forum from time to time and its insanity. The confidence trick played by POTUS is along lines of "dont ask questions there is a grand design".

the Israelis are talking about war with Egypt and Turkey in next 15 years. Sooner or later we all have to question what the hell are we doing?

 

[2531usmc]

Its incredible[& refreshing] to me how Americans on this forum seem much better tuned in to reality than many MAGA sympathetic in UK.

I snoop on a uk hunting forum from time to time and its insanity. The confidence trick played by POTUS is along lines of "dont ask questions there is a grand design".

the Israelis are talking about war with Egypt and Turkey in next 15 years. Sooner or later we all have to question what the hell are we doing?

Just out of curiosity, what is the uk hunting forum? It would be interesting to see their hunting discussions

 

[Poser]

the Israelis are talking about war with Egypt and Turkey in next 15 years. Sooner or later we all have to question what the hell are we doing?

Last when Vance said (paraphrasing): "Israel should keep in mind that this administration is the only country in the world still sympathetic to their cause..." I was thinking that he just blindly walked right in that one -is no one not stopping to ponder why exactly that may be the case? We have a first world country on our hands who are not acting out of reason, logic or rationality, rather, acting out of religious/prophetic desire and the US funds most of it, goes in debt to do it and willing spills blood to fulfill upon it.
Not suggesting that there historically hasn't been strategic benefit to being allied with Israel, but when strategic decisions are no longer based on rational processes, like you said, one has to question "what the hell are we doing?"

 

[KurtR]

Cutting Israel off would be a great start they offer nothing and take everything from the US

 

[VomSteinbruch]

To add to the discussion, if this service requirement existed then it could be extended to immigration as a requirement before getting citizenship.

Rome did that and we know what happened to her.

Also, there are tons of videos (on TickTok and IG) of foreigners bragging how they are the gaining the system and bamboozling "stupid American" by enlisting in the military and getting a Green Card. This is a loophole that every third world scummer, who is legally here, can and is already exploiting.

That loophole was specially designed to attract combat experienced foreigners from the WWII theaters who could go and fight in the Korean war or in Vietnam, but since the military has become government's job program it has absolutely been attracting wrong people.

And don't even get me started about the communist infiltration of the military. It is almost 100 years old process. The highly esteemed and venerated Smedley Butler was a card-carrying communist.

Voluntary participation at least provides some filter for unwanted people with bad morals. Mandatory service gets you the worst people who will also ruin some's genuine desire to serve his country.

 

[PlentyOfDoes]

Also, there are tons of videos (on TickTok and IG) of foreigners bragging how they are the gaining the system and bamboozling "stupid American" by enlisting in the military and getting a Green Card. This is a loophole that every third world scummer, who is legally here, can and is already exploiting.

Can you provide us a couple examples with links? I'm skeptical of how a four year enlistment is 'bamboozling' the system.

Describing Smedley Butler as a communist tainting the military is comical. He had his criticisms of the system that were well founded by what he experienced and knew at a high level.

 

[Poser]

Can you provide us a couple examples with links? I'm skeptical of how a four year enlistment is 'bamboozling' the system.

Describing Smedley Butler as a communist tainting the military is comical. He had his criticisms of the system that were well founded by what he experienced and knew at a high level.

Reminded me of this classic:

 

[jakeyjohn1]

That loophole was specially designed to attract combat experienced foreigners from the WWII theaters who could go and fight in the Korean war or in Vietnam, but since the military has become government's job program it has absolutely been attracting wrong people.

I was referring to a hypothetical 'civil' service when I brought up the idea of an immigration requirement. Thats an interesting point though that we already have a similar immigration pathway. I have been convinced by the arguments here that the military should remain volunteer only.

We have a first world country on our hands who are not acting out of reason, logic or rationality, rather, acting out of religious/prophetic desire

I have been trying to learn more about whats going on, I don't want this to seem argumentative. I'm afraid this isn't the place for this discussion (please just delete my post, dont ban me please), but other platforms are full of vitriol and its hard to learn anything about others' perspectives. Doesn't israel claim they are acting in self defense? Why do you reject this argument and what prophecy are you referring to? Hamas and Hezbollah are functionally a part of the IRGC and they all are primarily motivated by khomeini mahdism which is a literal religious prophecy requiring them to destroy israel and start global conflict + 'chaos' in order to resurrect their prophet. It sounds like you're accusing israel of what iran is doing so I am genuinely curious what youre basing your perspective on, particularly the religious/prophetic desire part. The jews have already returned to the levant, jerusalem has grown beyond the size predicted in jeremiah, and they are still waiting for their messiah. what other prophecies do they have? I see where the opinions that israel is reacting disproportionately or has gone beyond self defense and is acting offensively come from, but your take of religious motivation seems distinct from those perspectives. Im not trying to argue you're wrong, it wouldn't surprise me that both sides have competing prophecies, I have just not heard of this before despite trying to read up on whats going on.