MAGIC PIN USED ANYMORE?

[Billy Goat]

Two advantages to trick pin (no matter how many pins you have) as explained by Darin Cooper is that you dont have to hold off the animal and you only need to know that the animal is not past your max range. It takes guessing ranges and gapping pins out of the equation. If you set the trick pin up correctly you just hold dead center vitals every time and kill them.

This way of setting a sight up is a must, IMO, if you are running a single pin in the elk woods. I’m not a single pin guy, but by understanding how it works and messing with it in the off-season with my 3-pin it has helped me understand my arrow arc better and understand at what ranges my range error starts to be more critical. It’s a super simple system that works, but people try to make it more complicated than it is. If you think setting your pin at a distance and then holding high or low depending on where the animal shows up is the trick pin then you need to read about it again. That’s just single pin gap shooting and not near as effective IMO.

That's not how it works.

You need to hold a foot low with the trick. It's generally the bottom of the hairline on an elk, but a lot lower on antelope and mule deer.

 

[Seeknelk]

....but it does do.away with range estimation inside that pins setting. And I'd set my top pin for the trick distance maybe.

 

[Seeknelk]

That's not how it works.

You need to hold a foot low with the trick. It's generally the bottom of the hairline on an elk, but a lot lower on antelope and mule deer.

Beat me to it

 

[IdahoHntr]

That's not how it works.

You need to hold a foot low with the trick. It's generally the bottom of the hairline on an elk, but a lot lower on antelope and mule deer.

You establish your aiming point. If you wanted that point to be center of vitals it works the same. The point is knowing the distances where your arrow is within the kill zone and maximizing that flat arrow flight without having to gap or range.

 

[Billy Goat]

You establish your aiming point. If you wanted that point to be center of vitals it works the same. The point is knowing the distances where your arrow is within the kill zone and maximizing that flat arrow flight without having to gap or range.

I get that, but no, that's not how the trick pin is working, if you are trying to use the ranging and everything with it.

 

[IdahoHntr]

I get that, but no, that's not how the trick pin is working, if you are trying to use the ranging and everything with it.

That’s what I said. If you are trying to range with your pin then your just gap shooting. The trick pin is shooting the same location not needing to know the exact range. The only range that matters is the max distance that your trick pin is good for. As long as the animal is closer than that you can hold your point of aim and be confident that your arrow will land within the kill zone you established when you set it up.

I think I confused the issue by trying to explain how I apply it with my 3 pin sight and have used the same principles. I apologize for that, but I think we are on the same page. As long as the animal is within the distance you set up for, you just hold the same point of aim and shoot. No adjusting a little high or a little low..

 

[Billy Goat]

That’s what I said. If you are trying to range with your pin then your just gap shooting. The trick pin is shooting the same location not needing to know the exact range. The only range that matters is the max distance that your trick pin is good for. As long as the animal is closer than that you can hold your point of aim and be confident that your arrow will land within the kill zone you established when you set it up.

I think I confused the issue by trying to explain how I apply it with my 3 pin sight and have used the same principles. I apologize for that, but I think we are on the same page. As long as the animal is within the distance you set up for, you just hold the same point of aim and shoot. No adjusting a little high or a little low..

Read the article that was linked.

Yes, I would set it up similar to how you have, but that's not what is being discussed.


Kinda why the confusion is present with the multi-pin. I don't think anyone is setting a multiple pin to hold off an animal, but maybe they are.

The truck pin is similar to gap point shooting with a recurve, not the same as gapping pins. The article is explaining to hold a foot below, but is using the same principles of the maximum rise to give a maximum point blank range, it's just not using it while holding point blank.

 

[IdahoHntr]

Read the article that was linked.

Yes, I would set it up similar to how you have, but that's not what is being discussed.


Kinda why the confusion is present with the multi-pin. I don't think anyone is setting a multiple pin to hold off an animal, but maybe they are.

The truck pin is similar to gap point shooting with a recurve, not the same as gapping pins. The article is explaining to hold a foot below, but is using the same principles of the maximum rise to give a maximum point blank range, it's just not using it while holding point blank.

Exactly. I understand the principle, just conflated the issue with how I use it with my multiple pins. I think my comment about holding dead vitals and kill them is what’s throwing people off. I can do that with my multiple pin sight because I have used the same principles Darin talks about and know the points where my arrow is shooting the flattest.

It is very different from gapping pins. Like I’ve said. You hold the same spot no matter the distance. But you shouldn’t be saying oh that bull is a little closer so I’m gonna hold my trick pin a little lower. It doesn’t matter if he’s further or closer, you always aim for that same spot. Otherwise it is just pin gapping. I see a lot of people who think they are using the trick pin principle when they are really just gap shooting.

 

[Seeknelk]

Exactly. I understand the principle, just conflated the issue with how I use it with my multiple pins. I think my comment about holding dead vitals and kill them is what’s throwing people off. I can do that with my multiple pin sight because I have used the same principles Darin talks about and know the points where my arrow is shooting the flattest.

It is very different from gapping pins. Like I’ve said. You hold the same spot no matter the distance. But you shouldn’t be saying oh that bull is a little closer so I’m gonna hold my trick pin a little lower. It doesn’t matter if he’s further or closer, you always aim for that same spot. Otherwise it is just pin gapping. I see a lot of people who think they are using the trick pin principle when they are really just gap shooting.

Ok yeah that's right. You hold the same spot

 

[Patriot2]

I think you have it wrong. Check the article. You MUST hold off the animal. One foot low. It takes advantage of the intersection of line of sight and trajectory. Heck I can't explain it. He already
does.
Happily , one foot low is bottom of elks chest.

Seeknelk is correct. Trick pin is misunderstood by most so let me explain. It is absolutely NOT the same as simply using one pin, putting it on the point of impact, and determining what range of yardages will keep you in the kill zone. Let me use an extreme example to get the point across. If you stand 1 yard from your target and put your pin 2' below the bullseye of the target, you are pointing your bow down at a considerable angle. Agreed? Now step out to 40 yards and again put the pin 2' below the bullseye. Is the bow angled down as steeply now? Of course not. So just as you angle a bow upwards when choosing your 60 yd pin over a 20 yd pin, the Trick Pin method has you raising the bow angle upwards as your distance from the target increases. This compensates in part for the increasing arrow drop at longer distances. But you MUST aim below the desired point of impact for this phenomenon to occur.

I use it for elk hunting and can put my first pin (50 yds) at the bottom of an elk chest and deliver an arrow in the vitals from 15-45 yards (8"-16" above the bottom the chest) . Nothing easier. 50 yds and beyond I use pins and aim at the desired impact point as "normal". Here is depiction showing what I tried to describe below assuming a single pin. I made a cutout to keep the arrow trajectory, eye location and relative trajectory fixed in the sketch.

 

[dtrkyman]

I use a single pin, walk around with it set at 30, put a silver sharpie dot below it that is good for 40, the silver dot works for 30 yds if I set the pin at 20 and it works for 47 set at 40.

If I think an animal is 45 plus I am ranging it.

 

[nphunter]

Seeknelk is correct. Trick pin is misunderstood by most so let me explain. It is absolutely NOT the same as simply using one pin, putting it on the point of impact, and determining what range of yardages will keep you in the kill zone. Let me use an extreme example to get the point across. If you stand 1 yard from your target and put your pin 2' below the bullseye of the target, you are pointing your bow down at a considerable angle. Agreed? Now step out to 40 yards and again put the pin 2' below the bullseye. Is the bow angled down as steeply now? Of course not. So just as you angle a bow upwards when choosing your 60 yd pin over a 20 yd pin, the Trick Pin method has you raising the bow angle upwards as your distance from the target increases. This compensates in part for the increasing arrow drop at longer distances. But you MUST aim below the desired point of impact for this phenomenon to occur.

I use it for elk hunting and can put my first pin (50 yds) at the bottom of an elk chest and deliver an arrow in the vitals from 15-45 yards (8"-16" above the bottom the chest) . Nothing easier. 50 yds and beyond I use pins and aim at the desired impact point as "normal". Here is depiction showing what I tried to describe below assuming a single pin. I made a cutout to keep the arrow trajectory, eye location and relative trajectory fixed in the sketch.

View attachment 516333

What is your arrow speed and weight? The Idea seems cool but honestly when an animal is 20-45 you pretty much hit it just as accurately guessing the yardage and putting the pin on it correct? So essentially you could just best guess the shot, fling an arrow and most likely kill the elk?

My point is if you were to do the same thing and put 3 pins above your 50 one of those pins 20/30/40 will be in the vitals of the elk and how far the elk is out, depends on which pin is accurate. This is the exact thing you are doing. So even if you had 10 pins above 50 and you made sure your 50 didn't drop below the elks vitals you would hit the elk as long as he's under 50.

To me I really don't see the point or advantage of this over just having pins, if you know he's close top pin goes behind the shoulder and you either put it in the spot or shoot slightly low, if you way underestimate then you're going to miss low. You are always better to guess far when not ranging, putting your 50 pin on the spot on a 40-yard animal you will only miss a couple of inches high, if you do the opposite and put your 40 on the spot you're going to miss low. When you use a pin that is farther than your desired target your arrow is still climbing when you hit the target so you miss by less if you shoot at a target past your pin your arrow is falling and it falls faster than it climbs. It's easy to see what I mean if you print a bunch of trajectory charts and use a 30/40/50 as a zero range for each chart which is exactly what your pin is.

Personally, I prefer well-placed arrows within the center mass and don't like to hit too high or too low, I've had to make follow-up shots with both high and low shots but have never had to with a center of the lung hit.

 

[Patriot2]

What is your arrow speed and weight? The Idea seems cool but honestly when an animal is 20-45 you pretty much hit it just as accurately guessing the yardage and putting the pin on it correct? So essentially you could just best guess the shot, fling an arrow and most likely kill the elk?

My point is if you were to do the same thing and put 3 pins above your 50 one of those pins 20/30/40 will be in the vitals of the elk and how far the elk is out, depends on which pin is accurate. This is the exact thing you are doing. So even if you had 10 pins above 50 and you made sure your 50 didn't drop below the elks vitals you would hit the elk as long as he's under 50.

To me I really don't see the point or advantage of this over just having pins, if you know he's close top pin goes behind the shoulder and you either put it in the spot or shoot slightly low, if you way underestimate then you're going to miss low. You are always better to guess far when not ranging, putting your 50 pin on the spot on a 40-yard animal you will only miss a couple of inches high, if you do the opposite and put your 40 on the spot you're going to miss low. When you use a pin that is farther than your desired target your arrow is still climbing when you hit the target so you miss by less if you shoot at a target past your pin your arrow is falling and it falls faster than it climbs. It's easy to see what I mean if you print a bunch of trajectory charts and use a 30/40/50 as a zero range for each chart which is exactly what your pin is.

Personally, I prefer well-placed arrows within the center mass and don't like to hit too high or too low, I've had to make follow-up shots with both high and low shots but have never had to with a center of the lung hit.

I am only shooting 265-270 fps. I would estimate trick pin doubles your single pin effective yardage. I can shoot a 30 yd range with one pin and stay +/-4" from bullseye with truck pin. Probably about the same as being off 7-8 yds (15 yd range) with my setup and not using trick pin. It only takes 15 minutes to try it - nothing lost. I tried it on a whim and thought it was pretty dang cool. Happy hunting.