Made in/ Athlon

[MCT453]

Just recieved my second Athlon Helos. It is the 2-12 x42 btr gen2 ffp mil and the first i purchased had a higher magnification range and MOA. I like many here was reluctant for a long time to get on board because of country of origin but read several reviews and thoughts and finally committed recently. I will admit that I grew up poor and have been blessed career wise to the point that I have over compensated for growing up without many toys . I love knives, watches , guns and have a bad addiction for optics. I have accumulated way too much .I started out focusing on Japanes glass old Weaver , Bushnell , Sightron and of course SWFA . I have a few Meoptas but always tried to steer away from Made in China if I could. However with these two examples from Athlon I was so impressed (not mounted yet) with out of the box and handling that I couldn't help but wonder if they would be any better if the country of origin were any different than what it is? I guess my conclusion is in such a competitive market how could anyone expect to stay in business for very long if they didn't produce a product that met certain standards in the market they are trying to appeal to. Would it actually be better if it were made somewhere else? Would the criteria , specs , standards , expectations or quality control be any less? My conclusion is that probably the main difference in these examples at least would be cost. I know there are a lot lesser quality optics out there and this isn't a question based on in general but based on these 2 specific scopes. I was just wondering what others thoughts may be on this topic as every thread that seems to be a point of emphasis (where's it made?) almost 100% of the time. I am happy with my purchase and am not looking for approval just new here and spend a lot of time reading about optics and wanted to solicit opinions for the sake of conversation.
Thanks for your time.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Sorry to do this to ya. But you may want to just return them if able.

Athlon Helos BTR Gen2, 2-12x42mm Field Eval

This is a field evaluation of the Athlon Helos BTR Gen 2, 2-12x42mm scope. This scope was handed to me from from Ryan Avery for evaluation. It was sent to him from a forum member. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 20 round proof group was just over...

rokslide.com

 

[MCT453]

Sorry to do this to ya. But you may want to just return them if able.

Athlon Helos BTR Gen2, 2-12x42mm Field Eval

This is a field evaluation of the Athlon Helos BTR Gen 2, 2-12x42mm scope. This scope was handed to me from from Ryan Avery for evaluation. It was sent to him from a forum member. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 20 round proof group was just over...

rokslide.com

I read through that twice prior to purchasing the 2nd scope.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I read through that twice prior to purchasing the 2nd scope.

Ok well I hope they work for ya.

To answer some of your original questions.

I believe MOST Japanese products are better because in Japanese culture they are full of pride and have high expectations for themselves and for each other.
Chinese are just about money, and I don't believe they have nearly the same culture, and knowingly making junk doesn't bother them.
They will make better products if it is demanded of them. And the profits are there.

 

[nobody]

What would make it better would be if Athlon actually tested their optics for ruggedness and durability. Ideally, it wouldn't be made in China, but COI means nothing if the darn things don't work as an aiming device, no matter what.

 

[MCT453]

Ok well I hope they work for ya.

To answer some of your original questions.

I believe MOST Japanese products are better because in Japanese culture they are full of pride and have high expectations for themselves and for each other.
Chinese are just about money, and I don't believe they have nearly the same culture, and knowingly making junk doesn't bother them.
They will make better products if it is demanded of them. And the profits are there.

I agree.
That's why I focused on the older elites , Sightron and Weaver scopes as well as SWFA early on. I have all the fixed 12x and down as well as the 3-15 and 3-9. Love them all but wish they had some of the features that these Athlon scopes have. Country of origin Was a big factor for me originally and still somewhat of a deterent for future purchases but for my use and fascination with rifle scopes I think these will be fine. I appreciate the reviews and for all the negative there are several positive. At least enough to have pushed me over the ledge. Nothing being impossible but I don't plan on dropping any of my scopes just to see if they can or cannot take it whether it be these or the others. However I do appreciate that there are folks willing to test equipment to those lengths.

 

[307]

From what I've been told, China can make incredibly high quality products, or very low quality products depending on demand.

In modern times, Chinese labor is far from the cheapest option.

I think OP is pretty accurate with his initial thoughts.

 

[JGRaider]

I read through that twice prior to purchasing the 2nd scope.

Yeah, I read all of that myself. Bought one anyway and am glad I did. I have places where I can shoot all I want to out to a mile, and several buddy's who own ranches. I like to try stuff out for myself by actually using it in the field. I'm not going to base my purchases solely on what I read on the internet.

So far I've culled 11 whitetail does, a two whitetail bucks with it, along with about a dozen hogs. Shot steel out to 800 numerous times, and dialed it from 300 to 800 and everywhere in between numerous times. It's performed perfectly so far. I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

 

[JGRaider]

Sorry to do this to ya. But you may want to just return them if able.

Athlon Helos BTR Gen2, 2-12x42mm Field Eval

This is a field evaluation of the Athlon Helos BTR Gen 2, 2-12x42mm scope. This scope was handed to me from from Ryan Avery for evaluation. It was sent to him from a forum member. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 20 round proof group was just over...

rokslide.com

Givemeafreakingbreak..........

 

[BRTreedogs]

Givemeafreakingbreak..........

Man your so f ing damn cool I bet you don't even have time for a break. So go break yourself off a piece off kit cat bar.

 

[nobody]

Man your so f ing damn cool I bet you don't even have time for a break. So go break yourself off a piece off kit cat bar.

Sorry, this popped into my head and I have an impulse...

 

[Team4LongGun]

Lets get it back to the original topic.

 

[Mike Islander]

Based on actual testing, a scope doesn't need to be made in China to function poorly. But many do.

Some don't consider Formidilosus' testing to be a factor in scope choice. I definitely do, regardless of country of origin. And how a scope feels during handling, instead of actually shooting, is not a criteria I would consider very important.

But of course you do you.

 

[nobody]

Ok, back to the OP...

I think something to keep in mind with many of these optics is the features per dollar. So many of us get caught up in the bells and whistles and want FFP, huge zoom ratios. quality "glass", big travel ranges, side parallax, and illumination, and we want it for $500 or less.

Something HAS to give in order to get a product to that low of a price with those features. Glass quality has increased, so they're not cutting corners there. Manufacturers and companies are cutting costs by going to countries like China, where people are paid pennies and worked to death 25 hours a day. That's one way to get cost down, and a way that Athlon (and many other optics companies) have chosen to get to a price point.

Another way is by placing emphasis on the wrong things, like those bells and whistles, and concentrating less on things that matter, like tracking accuracy over time and tube quality and durability.

The unfortunate truth is that most companies almost always employ the second option, and sprinkle in some Chinese manufacturing on the lower end options. There HAVE to be compromises to hit a certain price point. Companies like Athlon concentrate on the two I've outlined above, whereas companies like Nightforce have chosen to bring prices down on their SHV line by eliminating extra goodies and concentrating on the one thing that truly matters: mechanical durability. Both Nightforce and Athlon sell optics for around $1k, but the way they hit that price point is VERY different, and most people look at the Athlon and see it as a "higher value" optic, and usually it's because they are placing an emphasis on bells and whistles and glass rather than on mechanics.

The Chinese will make whatever the company employing them tells them to. People are demanding more bells and whistles per dollar. So yes, China can churn out some good stuff in that regard. But Athlon wouldn't improve if they moved manufacturing to Japan, because they are placing an emphasis on the wrong areas, and not on mechanical reliability and durability. Doesn't matter how good the glass is or how neat the reticle looks if it doesn't track after 500 rounds or goes belly up after tipping over in field.

 

[MCT453]

Based on actual testing, a scope doesn't need to be made in China to function poorly. But many do.

Some don't consider Formidilosus' testing to be a factor in scope choice. I definitely do, regardless of country of origin. And how a scope feels during handling, instead of actually shooting, is not a criteria I would consider very important.

But of course you do you.

I agree.
It isn't very important but was enough to inspire me to put the questions out there.
Performance, durability and reliability would be #1 by far. I have more optics with made in Japan on them than any others that I have. That was my focus at 1 time and everyone of them researched quite a bit prior to purchase and was able to find both negative and positive feedback on them all and at the end of the day it was up to me to put it all together and decide whether or not I thought it was worth my $. I will never have the time , knowledge or the opportunity to test anything out like I have seen some folks do. I also think as so many manufacturers are going this direction it would be good to enlighten people enough on what may actually work for them within their budget. I have seen lots of feedback on the optic mentioned in the original post going both ways but what I researched it seemed that the positive out weighed the negative enough for me to swallow my pride enough to give them a try.

 

[coloradoan]

Enough internet ink has already been spilled about the validity of Form's testing methods. I'm by no means trying to call him out but it seems clear enough to me that like a lot of super knowledgeable guys he also probably overstates things. I've used his posts as a guide for many years now but it's always worth remembering you're allowed to try things for yourself and form your own opinion.

Honestly I think "puking" a scope yourself would be a better learning experience than just relying on strangers on the internet.

 

[MidGAHunter]

I dont know Form personally and couldn't pick him out in a crowd if you paid me. That being said, I don’t think he overstates things but rather simply points out his experiences. That rubs some folks the wrong way because for some reason, people seem to tie their own self-worth to inanimate objects and internet approval of them buying said objects. For some of his scope tests he has flat out said it is a sample of ONE and should be taken as auch. In other tests he points out that he has seen others fail (or not) similarly. He also says to test your own gear and find out for yourself what works. You want to buy and use Athlon? Fine then, do it. Put them through their paces and see how they hold up and by all means report your experiences. Data are a good thing and the more we have the more of a pattern will develop (and that benefits everyone). Since most manufacturers aren't interested in making sure their scopes actually steer bullets consistently we have to do their testing for them. So...USE those scopes hard and let us know how they do long term. Also, knock Forms tests all you want but there is a pattern there and I don't know of anyone else actually testing for what he is testing for. Features and glass quality mean shit if the scope won't consistently steer the bullet where it needs to go. That is the point of his tests...to see which scopes will hold up through heavy use (and then some). Enjoy your scopes.

 

[MCT453]

For the record I never meant for this to be a thread about someone who reviewed a particular scope and what their findings may have been.
Just wanted to maybe see what everyone else's personal thoughts may have been in comparison to mine as I came home from work and had a new scope on the porch for some inspiration. Don't post much but used to over in another forum dedicated to knives and sharp things but mostly trading, buying and selling then so nothing too ground breaking. Just thought I would give it a whirl here being new and while the thought was fresh.

 

[Keptwalkin]

People forget that back in the day all products from japan were considered junk. From the 50s to about the 80s. China makes a lot of junk but you are seeing some companies now that make some really high quality stuff. Civivi and Kizer knives are a good example. Folding knives from those companies are anywhere from 50 to 150 bucks but the quality is quite high and surpasses some made in USA knives.

 

[rclouse79]

I wanted to buy an SWFA for my last scope, but there were on crazy backorder. I ended up buying an Athlon Midas Tac 4-16 so I could get it ready for hunting season. It has been great so far, knock on wood.