Made in America textiles - a refocused thread

[Dos Perros]

That other thread got all FUBAR'd. Hopefully this one will stay on track.

I recently came across the following article: https://www.reuters.com/technology/robots-set-their-sights-new-job-sewing-blue-jeans-2022-12-12/

Robots set their sights on a new job: sewing blue jeans

"Clothing is the last trillion-dollar industry that hasn’t been automated," said Eugen Solowjow, who heads a project at a Siemens lab in San Francisco that has worked on automating apparel manufacturing since 2018.

There seems to be a ton of different pressures that would push more automation into the clothing industry. Labor is expensive and tough to find. At least specific to outdoor gear, consumers are demanding better performing and longer lasting materials. They're willing to pay higher prices if they can justify the performance. There are pressures to improve supply chains (reduce distance and time duration). Maybe all these pressures are enough to drive the investment and development of automation?

Even without, I see a ton of potential, and a trend.

 

[sneaky]

Brings up the question: is it really helping to manufacture jeans here if it's all done by robots and very few jobs are actually created? It would say Made in USA, but who would it be benefiting in reality? Just a thought.

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[z987k]

Brings up the question: is it really helping to manufacture jeans here if it's all done by robots and very few jobs are actually created? It would say Made in USA, but who would it be benefiting in reality? Just a thought.

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Yes, it still does. Most manufacturing we do in the US is very high value add. And it has to be to support our wages. There would still be jobs repairing the robots, managing the plant, upgrading/building the plant and managing the company. It's less jobs for sure, but the jobs it does provide are higher wage and higher skill required.

 

[Billy Goat]

Brings up the question: is it really helping to manufacture jeans here if it's all done by robots and very few jobs are actually created? It would say Made in USA, but who would it be benefiting in reality? Just a thought.

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That's the reality of manufacturing in the USA. Automation is the only way to compete. Means we need a higher educated, more service focused work force.


Or you can be like West VA and Wyoming, keep saying bring back coal! When that doesn't bring back jobs, cause it's mostly Automation. Not like we send 1000 people and a canary in to dig it out anymore.

Either way, it still isn't going to employ as many people as it previously did.

 

[MattB]

Brings up the question: is it really helping to manufacture jeans here if it's all done by robots and very few jobs are actually created? It would say Made in USA, but who would it be benefiting in reality? Just a thought.

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Sewing is cr@p work but maintaining robots can be a decent living. My BIL does that in NC (mechatronics).

If we made jeans here, perhaps the Chinese couldn’t fully fund their global weather balloon program?

 

[ETtikka]

My question would be where are the robotics and other automation manufactured?

 

[Rokbar]

My question would be where are the robotics and other automation manufactured?

Probably Japan/Korea??

 

[PathFinder]

Fanuc, Panasonic and Yaskawa are in Japan. ABB is in Sweden. Kuka is based in Germany, but I think they do some production in China now. I don't believe that any major industrial robots are made here, but they are set up here. Meaning that automation companies buy the robots and set them up for the end customer here in the US. Enclosures, tooling, and other components are made here. It results in a lot of high end jobs.
There are other forms of automation as well. What was said above is spot on. If we want to beat wages that are 1/5 or less what we have to pay here, we have to work smarter. Automation is a great way to do that in many cases.

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[ETtikka]

my point was we used to be a country with a competitive gdp built on manufactured goods the whole world needed. Now we are too dependent on others, history has not taught us much.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I grew up around denim mills and they're all torn down / gone now.

 

[SoloWilderness]

Yes, it still does. Most manufacturing we do in the US is very high value add. And it has to be to support our wages. There would still be jobs repairing the robots, managing the plant, upgrading/building the plant and managing the company. It's less jobs for sure, but the jobs it does provide are higher wage and higher skill required.

This is spot on. Amazon uses a ton of automation in it's distribution plants, but they still have to be built, each one of them is a $50-$100 million+ construction project. A lot of jobs building them, and then the constant upgrades and service drive a continuous revenue stream. That's just the construction side of it. The same applies to manufacturing facilities. A job manually sewing jeans sucks, and I wouldn't steer my kids towards it in a million years. But a job managing an automated production facility, with highly complex engineering and logistical systems, would be a job with a future. The focus needs to be on high quality, high paying jobs, not trying to compete with China on manual, labor intensive manufacturing, that's a fight we won't and shouldn't want to win. Automation, 3d printing, laser welded fabrics, fabrics with integrated circuits and added functions, these are the kinds of manufacturing we want to be encouraging.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Automation is a bad rabbit hole to go down. No matter how you look at it or spin it it eliminates jobs for Americans. So our population grows every year but available jobs goes down. That doesn’t seem sustainable to me.

The bottom line is the US will never be able to compete with a communist country that works their citizens to death and starts brainwashing them from birth that the Country is more important than the individual. In the US people mostly care about themselves so you’ll never get them to work as hard as the Chinese do for so little. Greedy companies will always be attracted to the increased profits they can gain by using cheap Chinese labor.

I think US made goods will simply become a niche market only available for those willing/able to pay the premium prices. Sorta like Sitkas place in the hunting clothing world.

But i suppose even creating a small niche US made market is a good thing in the end. I just think ever increasing automation is a bad thing as it helps the company not the US people/worker.

 

[TSAMP]

Cool article. It's an interesting topic. Makes me chuckle with the amount of funding mentioned and we see a photo of a 30k dollar collaborative robot and thats what catches our eye. The truth is robots are inexpensive compared to most other automation out there. They also are generally deployed in the most unskilled labor sectors. Which is typically the jobs nobody wants.

Although look at welding. There's plenty of robotic weld systems out there but also upwards of 300k open positions for human welders. Those aren't low paying jobs either.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

This is spot on. Amazon uses a ton of automation in it's distribution plants, but they still have to be built, each one of them is $50-$100 million+ construction project. Alot of jobs building them, and then the constant upgrades and service drive a continuous revenue stream. That's just the construction side of it. The same applies to manufacturing facilities. A job manually sewing jeans sucks, and I wouldn't steer my kids towards it in a million years. But a job managing an automated production facility, with highly complex engineering and logistical systems, would be a job with a future. The focus needs to be on high quality, high paying jobs, not trying to compete with China on manual, labor intensive manufacturing, that's a fight we won't and shouldn't want to win.

What about jobs for unskilled Americans? We can’t ALL have high quality, high paying jobs. There needs to be entry level jobs for people to cut their teeth on. Maybe you SHOULD be steering your kids to start off on those jobs instead of convincing them they need to make livable wages when they’re 17. Start there, learn how to work, then naturally move into higher paying positions. When i was in high school none of us thought we should be paid $25/hr for the no skill jobs we were doing in our free time or over the summer.

If we can’t employ everyone the countries economy will continue to spiral the drain as it is now.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Although look at welding. There's plenty of robotic weld systems out there but also upwards of 300k open positions for human welders. Those aren't low paying jobs either.

Yep but if want one of those welding jobs it's in the field. I have couple buddies that make great money welding...they work summers in the Dakotas and winters in South America...

 

[SoloWilderness]

Cool article. It's an interesting topic. Makes me chuckle with the amount of funding mentioned and we see a photo of a 30k dollar collaborative robot and thats what catches our eye. The truth is robots are inexpensive compared to most other automation out there. They also are generally deployed in the most unskilled labor sectors. Which is typically the jobs nobody wants.

Although look at welding. There's plenty of robotic weld systems out there but also upwards of 300k open positions for human welders. Those aren't low paying jobs either.

What about jobs for unskilled Americans? We can’t ALL have high quality, high paying jobs. There needs to be entry level jobs for people to cut their teeth on. Maybe you SHOULD be steering your kids to start off on those jobs instead of convincing them they need to make livable wages when they’re 17. Start there, learn how to work, then naturally move into higher paying positions. When i was in high school none of us thought we should be paid $25/hr for the no skill jobs we were doing in our free time or over the summer.

If we can’t employ everyone the countries economy will continue to spiral the drain as it is now.

I started a business at 15, and have started several other small businesses over the years, funded by working crappy jobs until I was able to quit, because I made enough working for myself to do so. I pursued high skilled jobs from the beginning. Thats the path I want my kids on, not the low skilled, dead-end jobs, which are just a means to an end, which should be to raise capital, and get work experience to move out of them. A job at McDonalds is not a career, it's a steppingstone, to be passed by as quickly as possible. I want them to dream of being a founder, or business owner, not a worker. I don't want them in the $25/hr for nothing mindset that is so pervasive. I see a lot of low skill workers spending money on booze, cigarettes and garbage products, instead of saving their money to create opportunities for themselves.

The issue isn't creating crappy jobs for low skilled workers, it's educating children to be self-starters, and building an educational system that supports real world skills, not pandering to the lowest common denominator. We have a lot of useless workers currently, and this is going to continue to be a problem, and is what is destroying our country, not the self starters that excel on their own merit. The skilled trades have 100's of thousands of openings, and provide free education, on the job training, and a good career path. Yet we can't hire enough people, because, it's hard work, takes motivation, and requires commitment. These are entry level jobs, which make $20/hr+ with benefits from day one, and go up rapidly from there. These are the jobs to steer people entering the workforce to. They are productive, and can be built off of, in the way a burger flipping job can't (which will be automated soon enough).

I would agree that teaching kids the value of their time is important. There are plenty of opportunities to move out of low wage work, most people are just too lazy. Steering my kids to the low skill jobs just takes that job away from someone who may never achieve more than that level of success. They will have learned to work long before they enter the workforce officially.

 

[dtrkyman]

Have you seen teenagers these days? How many of them are going to go work in a plant? Their all gonna make millions on youtube!

I don't blame them, I worked in a factory twice when I was a teenager, it sucked!

I guess somewhere someone will fill these jobs, reminds of the old Caddy Shack line. "the world needs ditch diggers too"

 

[SoloWilderness]

What about jobs for unskilled Americans? We can’t ALL have high quality, high paying jobs. There needs to be entry level jobs for people to cut their teeth on. Maybe you SHOULD be steering your kids to start off on those jobs instead of convincing them they need to make livable wages when they’re 17. Start there, learn how to work, then naturally move into higher paying positions. When i was in high school none of us thought we should be paid $25/hr for the no skill jobs we were doing in our free time or over the summer.

If we can’t employ everyone the countries economy will continue to spiral the drain as it is now.

The focus needs to be on training these unskilled Americans to have some worthwhile skills, whether it's building factories, maintaining them or running the robots, not on trying to compete with automation or low wage foreign production. Companies like Amazon and Starbucks offer college tuition and other benefits to help people move out of their low skill roles. I'm curious what percentage of their workforce applies themselves, and takes advantage of this? Or do they just complain that it's not fair that they can't get ahead in the world?

To keep this thread on topic, interesting article, about the creative use of a new process to overcome the hurdles faced in automating clothing production. Innovation is what will drive our ability to onshore these industries again.

 

[TSAMP]

Yep but if want one of those welding jobs it's in the field. I have couple buddies that make great money welding...they work summers in the Dakotas and winters in South America...

I dont know that its quite that black and white. Plenty of good factory welder jobs. Obviously "good" is subjective.

Now if you want to make more, yes go weld pipelines or underwater.

A buddy welds for a Ag company about 8 mo a year and then is laid off the remaining 4 like clockwork. He still makes 65k a year. Then add in what he makes in his free 4 months under the table.

Important edit: he was not a welder when he was hired. He simply applied and they trained him.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

The focus needs to be on training these unskilled Americans to have some worthwhile skills, whether it's building factories, maintaining them or running the robots, not on trying to compete with automation or low wage foreign production. Companies like Amazon and Starbucks offer college tuition and other benefits to help people move out of their low skill roles. I'm curious what percentage of their workforce applies themselves, and takes advantage of this? Or do they just complain that it's not fair that they can't get ahead in the world?

To keep this thread on topic, interesting article, about the creative use of a new process to overcome the hurdles faced in automating clothing production. Innovation is what will drive our ability to onshore these industries again.

I think you and I have a lot of the same ideas on this topic but i think you missed my point.

Not everyone wants to be trained to build factories, not everyone is a self starter, not everyone is ambitious or a go getter. Sadly, many are just fine settling in life working a dead end job and not bettering their situation. Thats freedom though, you have the freedom to fail just as you have the freedom to succeed in the US.

That being said, if we eliminate these no skill dead end jobs millions of those under achieving types of people will have no job options and as such will just be added to the ever growing list of people dependent on Govt handouts. There are what, 200 million working age Americans? We cant all start businesses, earn college degrees, be high achievers we need low skill or no skill jobs too, entry level work.

Instead of automating everything i say bring back sewing shops, teach people to sew clothing, pay em $15/hr and show them there is room for advancement or, just sew the rest of their life making Made in the USA clothing getting a 3% raise every year. Id rather people do that then collect welfare on my dime. I dont for a second buy the "no one will do those jobs" idea i think millions will just as they always have. They arent now because those jobs just arent there so we need to bring them back.