Made in America textiles - a refocused thread

[cmahoney]

I think you and I have a lot of the same ideas on this topic but i think you missed my point.

Not everyone wants to be trained to build factories, not everyone is a self starter, not everyone is ambitious or a go getter. Sadly, many are just fine settling in life working a dead end job and not bettering their situation. Thats freedom though, you have the freedom to fail just as you have the freedom to succeed in the US.

That being said, if we eliminate these no skill dead end jobs millions of those under achieving types of people will have no job options and as such will just be added to the ever growing list of people dependent on Govt handouts. There are what, 200 million working age Americans? We cant all start businesses, earn college degrees, be high achievers we need low skill or no skill jobs too, entry level work.

Instead of automating everything i say bring back sewing shops, teach people to sew clothing, pay em $15/hr and show them there is room for advancement or, just sew the rest of their life making Made in the USA clothing getting a 3% raise every year. Id rather people do that then collect welfare on my dime. I dont for a second buy the "no one will do those jobs" idea i think millions will just as they always have. They arent now because those jobs just arent there so we need to bring them back.

That’s not going to happen if we keep paying people over $20 an hour to sit at home and smoke weed.


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[TSAMP]

I think you and I have a lot of the same ideas on this topic but i think you missed my point.

Not everyone wants to be trained to build factories, not everyone is a self starter, not everyone is ambitious or a go getter. Sadly, many are just fine settling in life working a dead end job and not bettering their situation. Thats freedom though, you have the freedom to fail just as you have the freedom to succeed in the US.

That being said, if we eliminate these no skill dead end jobs millions of those under achieving types of people will have no job options and as such will just be added to the ever growing list of people dependent on Govt handouts. There are what, 200 million working age Americans? We cant all start businesses, earn college degrees, be high achievers we need low skill or no skill jobs too, entry level work.

Instead of automating everything i say bring back sewing shops, teach people to sew clothing, pay em $15/hr and show them there is room for advancement or, just sew the rest of their life making Made in the USA clothing getting a 3% raise every year. Id rather people do that then collect welfare on my dime. I dont for a second buy the "no one will do those jobs" idea i think millions will just as they always have. They arent now because those jobs just arent there so we need to bring them back.

I don't think we are at risk of automating everything. Not even close.

The fact is there are jobs that nobodies doing. Plenty of them. Everybody's definition of success is also very different.

I'm with you on welfare but creating more low paying jobs shouldn't be on anybodies radar.

 

[Dos Perros]

The bottom line is the US will never be able to compete with a communist country that works their citizens to death and starts brainwashing them from birth that the Country is more important than the individual.

I disagree. Innovation is still needed to move forward. Mindless drones don't innovate. Instead the Chinese have become experts in stealing. If we can choke them off from accessing our IP they won't be able to compete.

 

[Predator_SD]

I don't think we are at risk of automating everything. Not even close.

The fact is there are jobs that nobodies doing. Plenty of them. Everybody's definition of success is also very different.

I'm with you on welfare but creating more low paying jobs shouldn't be on anybodies radar.

Then we need to get rid of the incentives we give people to stay home doing nothing instead of working a low paying job.

Its not my job to feed and house them because they arent motivated enough to work a low paying job nor are they motivated enough to attain the skills needed to work a high paying job.

I want all of our manufacturing jobs to come back but that needs to include the jobs that go with it. You cant just say, "low paying jobs shouldnt be on anybodies radar" but also say you dont want to pay people welfare. There are people who need those low paying jobs or theyll simply be out of work and on welfare. Some simply will not educate themselves or take advantage of programs to increase their skills.

Give them a $15/hr entry level American made textile or manufacturing job to work instead of welfare. Its how America was built and we need to get back to that or we will continue this downward spiral we are in.

 

[MattB]

It is as though many of you are unaware that our current 3.4% unemployment rate is a historic low. We don’t have enough labor to fill the jobs that currently exist in our economy let alone to fill the lower wage jobs some are proposing we bring back to the US.

Automation can bridge that gap.

 

[Dos Perros]

our current 3.4% unemployment rate is a historic low

Is that a real thing? I see lower unemployment rates in the past.

 

[MattB]

Is that a real thing? I see lower unemployment rates in the past.

There were some slightly lower points in the 1950’s, but when looking at the unemployment rate over most of our lifetimes we have not seen a higher employment rate.

When I was in grad school (mid-1990’s), economists held that 5% unemployment was considered full employment.

Unemployment Rate

View data of the unemployment rate, or the number of people 16 and over actively searching for a job as a percentage of the total labor force.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[Dos Perros]

There were some slightly lower points in the 1950’s, but when looking at the unemployment rate over most of our lifetimes we have not seen a higher employment rate.

When I was in grad school (mid-1990’s), economists held that 5% unemployment was considered full employment.

Unemployment Rate

View data of the unemployment rate, or the number of people 16 and over actively searching for a job as a percentage of the total labor force.

fred.stlouisfed.org

So it's political hyperbole?

 

[Marbles]

Brings up the question: is it really helping to manufacture jeans here if it's all done by robots and very few jobs are actually created? It would say Made in USA, but who would it be benefiting in reality? Just a thought.

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Edit: should have read on before beating a dead horse.

Fewer people, but the engineers to maintain the robots, the facilities personnel to maintain the buildings/grounds, security personnel, the factory would use a US supplier of energy, Etc. So, it would still be a net creation of jobs. Plus the benefits to the country of being an exporter rather than an importer.

 

[KurtR]

It is as though many of you are unaware that our current 3.4% unemployment rate is a historic low. We don’t have enough labor to fill the jobs that currently exist in our economy let alone to fill the lower wage jobs some are proposing we bring back to the US.

Automation can bridge that gap.

Isnt that based off of people applying for unemployment benefits? I would suspect that with the happenings of the past few years a bunch have ran out and they are not on there but have enough other benefits to sit at home. Alot of those people are on housing and get ebt so if they can scrape enough together for some beer and smokes life is good. I live in a small town of 3000 and see it every day with it being exacerbated living next to two reservations.

 

[SoloWilderness]

Isnt that based off of people applying for unemployment benefits? I would suspect that with the happenings of the past few years a bunch have ran out and they are not on there but have enough other benefits to sit at home. Alot of those people are on housing and get ebt so if they can scrape enough together for some beer and smokes life is good. I live in a small town of 3000 and see it every day with it being exacerbated living next to two reservations.

This is correct, at least from what I've seen recently. The unemployment number is based off those looking for work, and doesn't include those who have dropped out of the labor force completely. There are tons of low wage jobs available, people just won't take them, every fast food place, gas station and grocery store I drive by has help wanted signs out. In reality, it is my understanding that the actual percentage of working age people who are out of work is closer to 5-6%.

 

[Marbles]

There were some slightly lower points in the 1950’s, but when looking at the unemployment rate over most of our lifetimes we have not seen a higher employment rate.

When I was in grad school (mid-1990’s), economists held that 5% unemployment was considered full employment.

Unemployment Rate

View data of the unemployment rate, or the number of people 16 and over actively searching for a job as a percentage of the total labor force.

fred.stlouisfed.org

Participation rate should be considered as well. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

And demographic break downs for anyone who wants to throw shade at certain generations. Warning, you will have to dig a little, but this has 2022 data.

Labor force projections to 2022: the labor force participation rate continues to fall : Monthly Labor Review : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

www.bls.gov

In the end, both numbers matter.

@Dos Perros As for the accusation of political hyperbole, a look at participation rate shows the prior administration did the same. So, a more accurate assessment is par for the course as human nature is to focus on the data set we like. The reason to compare is that by anchoring expectations we avoid being mastered by the emotional games each side tries to play.

 

[Predator_SD]

It is as though many of you are unaware that our current 3.4% unemployment rate is a historic low. We don’t have enough labor to fill the jobs that currently exist in our economy let alone to fill the lower wage jobs some are proposing we bring back to the US.

Automation can bridge that gap.

The labor force is absolutely there. Stop telling people they need “livable wages” to perform menial, unskilled jobs. Then bring more unskilled manufacturing jobs back to the US for unskilled laborers to work.

The final step is to stop paying people endless govt entitlements enabling them to not work. Literally just stop paying them. They’ll be back in the labor force quicker than you’d imagine if endless govt entitlements were just stopped cold. Most people are unwilling to starve to death.

 

[Dos Perros]

The problem with the 'livable wage' thing is you lose the jobs that could be occupied by people who don't need to live off them. When I was 14 I worked for less than minimum wage for a pool company. It was awful but character building. Once I turned 16 I was maybe a quarter or more higher than minimum wage working at a movie theater. I bought all my own overpriced preppie clothing and learned to work with girls. I worked a few odd jobs throughout college, none paid well except my summer internships.

How are 'kids' going to be productive entering a work force when the have no working experience?

 

[sneaky]

What about jobs for unskilled Americans? We can’t ALL have high quality, high paying jobs. There needs to be entry level jobs for people to cut their teeth on. Maybe you SHOULD be steering your kids to start off on those jobs instead of convincing them they need to make livable wages when they’re 17. Start there, learn how to work, then naturally move into higher paying positions. When i was in high school none of us thought we should be paid $25/hr for the no skill jobs we were doing in our free time or over the summer.

If we can’t employ everyone the countries economy will continue to spiral the drain as it is now.

Exactly. We screwed up as a country by pivoting away from production and manual labor jobs. Somewhere along the line we began believing such work was "beneath" us. People have to learn work ethic or our country is screwed. $20/hr to flip burgers is an unrealistic expectation. We don't have manufacturing here because we as a society have become lazy and would rather outsource labor than do it ourselves. Automation isn't going to fix this.

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[Dos Perros]

I've worked for manufacturers my entire adult life, spending time supporting 5 different production facilities in the last 21 years. I'd work a blue collar job in any one of those before I'd ever flip a burger.

Where I am now, we have a big demand for hourly manufacturing positions. We get a lot of applicants, but many of them have no applicable experience. That makes hiring tough. I think we take a chance on quite a few folks but the conversion rate isn't very high.

 

[Customweld]

I mentioned in the other thread that I get my pants and hickory shirts from Prison Blues. They are manufactured at the detention center in Pendleton Or. I started buying these when I was logging because they were damn tough and at the time, Carhartt had moved their production to Mexico. At the time they were the only US made jeans (that I was aware of) that were up to the task of being worn in the woods. I still wear them because they come with bachelor buttons and they are fairly affordable.

Trying to recruit into the trades is tough and we don't do a great job in educating. Even when I was in high school '89-'93 in small town Idaho, trades were not talked about. Teachers did not know what to do with those of us who did not do well in studies. They would make fun of you, but turn around and ask if you could do their brakes over the weekend in the school shop. The industry that I am in is within a 7-10 year train wreck for lack of of upcoming operators.

 

[TSAMP]

Sorry guys. Couldn't resist.

 

[b0nes]

At the shop I work at as an entry level welder that can pass a 2g test we start guys at around 55k a year and for a skilled go getter that soaks up OT you can make 90-100k a year. Fitters are even more. All you have to do is 4 things. 1. Work safe 2. Show up every day. 3. Have a good attitude. 4. Do a good job. It’s unbelievable how many people can’t manage to do those 4 things. Especially young people.

 

[Blowdowner]

How about 100% American. That way even if robots are involved we know the cotton or wool came from here. And of course say no to robots.