Love Thy Neighbor

[ThorM465]

More "us vs. them" rhetoric. So what you are saying is that your kids won't ever have the ability to become a physician, an airline pilot, an engineer, an attorney, etc, because colleges are all left-wing brainwashing institutions.... Got it!

He's correct. There are demonic forces who are actively trying to possess our children and the universities are the worst culprits. I'm not saying don't send your children to get any degrees from any schools. However, you need to be very careful with who is influencing your children.

 

[doc holiday13]

Man you lost me on this bro. I've been a Christian my whole life and I've never once felt God would want me to sit by and watch harm come to my loved ones or someone that is defenseless. I could never watch someone hurt my wife and children. I know my Dad wouldn't either. Guess that's why we're supposed to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

Some may disagree but I think I would rather hazard my soul then watch my children beg me to help them and then do nothing.

What is permitted for one man is not permitted for another. For some christians, it is sin to drink alcohol, but it is not a sin for all christians. For some men it would be sin to commit violence, for others it would be a sin to not commit violence.

This is ultimately much like the reason for CK's killing.. The shooter clearly thought that his ideology is the only way to a more perfect democratic republic and any dissenting idea was worth killing. Just because someone's limitations are different from yours does not make them wrong.

 

[alaska_bou]

He's correct. There are demonic forces who are actively trying to possess are children and the universities are the worst culprits. I'm not saying don't send your children to get any degrees from any schools. However, you need to be very careful with who is influencing your children.

No, he is not correct, and this type of thinking is the process of alt-right radicalization. There will always be people in every institution pushing their own ideology that we may not agree with. You have chosen to cope with this by calling it demonic, pushing blame onto the supernatural while referencing a bible written by men who never met Christ, men who believed the Earth was flat. You mention the story of Abraham, but you left out Deuteronomy in the Old Testament when God says it is okay to kill your own child if they are rebellious. That will take a bit more mental gymnastics to rationalize.

The most dangerous person is the self-righteous person because they lack the ability to rationalize right from wrong. Some of the rhetoric above is no different than an Islamic Jihadist. Like it or not, you each worship the same God, each in your own way through your own choice of man-made religion, and none of you have the right to kill someone else the name of God.

 

[ThorM465]

What is permitted for one man is not permitted for another. For some christians, it is sin to drink alcohol, but it is not a sin for all christians. For some men it would be sin to commit violence, for others it would be a sin to not commit violence.

This is ultimately much like the reason for CK's killing.. The shooter clearly thought that his ideology is the only way to a more perfect democratic republic and any dissenting idea was worth killing. Just because someone's limitations are different from yours does not make them wrong.

A sin is a sin period. Some Christians are correct and some are not. There are objective and moral truths. Moral truths exist independently of individual beliefs, cultural norms, or situational contexts, and I'm not pretending otherwise to protect the feelings of others.

Moral relativism is utter nonsense and I reject it outright.

 

[ThorM465]

No, he is not correct, and this type of thinking is the process of alt-right radicalization. There will always be people in every institution pushing their own ideology that we may not agree with. You have chosen to cope with this by calling it demonic, pushing blame onto the supernatural while referencing a bible written by men who never met Christ, men who believed the Earth was flat. You mention the story of Abraham, but you left out Deuteronomy in the Old Testament when God says it is okay to kill your own child if they are rebellious. That will take a bit more mental gymnastics to rationalize.

The most dangerous person is the self-righteous person because they lack the ability to rationalize right from wrong. Some of the rhetoric above is no different than an Islamic Jihadist. Like it or not, you each worship the same God, each in your own way through your own choice of man-made religion, and none of you have the right to kill someone else the name of God.

There is no rationalizing right from wrong without the fundamental framework provided by Christianity or some higher authority than he self. You may not be a Christian, you may not believe in the word of God, but I assure you that your moral framework is based upon it.

We're no longer arguing over tax rates, conservatives vs liberal policies, or interpretations at the edge. We are dealing with a real Good vs Evil battle. Whether you believe in it is irrespective of its existence.

 

[Marbles]

Unfortunately, very few modern-day Christians are familiar with the actual message of Christ. If they didn't know any better, the majority would call Jesus himself a woke liberal when you reference his message to love ALL people, to welcome the stranger, help the needy, feed the poor, forgive those who have sinned, to turn the other check rather than seek retribution, to come together, etc. These pseudo-Christians have been indoctrinated by fear-based religion and brainwashed by their choice of media to reject any form of Christ's message as evil socialism. Much of what we are seeing as a nation today is the is the antithesis of anything Christ-like.

If someone is calling people "losers" while wearing a cross around their neck, that person clearly has no idea who Christ was. "Love thy neighbor" is lost when pseudo-Christians idolize political influencers and elected officials who continue to vilify 50% of this nation who hold different opinions, different politics, different ideologies, etc as "they" who are the enemy. These people who hold this power over the masses are nothing more than self-serving salesman who prey on those who are easily influenced.

Much I agree with. But, careful, any who claim to follow Christ get to call themselves Christians. Some are more a work in progress than others, truly seeking, but still struggling with the deceptions of the heart and the world. Others are wolves in lambs clothing, but while we are called to be as shrewd as serpents and discern right and wrong, we can only judge actions and fruit, but cannot judge the heart (even our own).

We can discern good vs bad Christians, but we lack the tools needed to discern Christian vs non-Christian in those who profess faith. Attempting that judgement is a first step on a road that can lead to being against Christ.

I have said similarly judgemental things both regarding the political left and right depending on the issue, and still fall to that temptation, so please do not take this as a claim of superiority.

 

[alaska_bou]

There is no rationalizing right from wrong without the fundamental framework provided by Christianity or some higher authority than he self. You may not be a Christian, you may not believe in the word of God, but I assure you that your moral framework is based upon it.

We're no longer arguing over tax rates, conservatives vs liberal policies, or interpretations at the edge. We are dealing with a real Good vs Evil battle. Whether you believe in it is irrespective of its existence.

It is absurd to suggest morality, or any sense of rights vs. wrong, can only be offered with a subscription to a religion. But then again, that is part of the sales pitch to people who lack critical thinking. Just ignore the prayers that have been answered to the Hindus, the Muslims, the Mormons, the Atheists, etc, and ignore the millions and millions of very good non-Christians who help others just as Jesus preached. My own life experience has taught me that those who constantly profess just how "Christian" they are are 100% the ones who will lie, cheat, steal, molest, etc. Over and over again I have seen this. It isn't a coincidence.

Some of you are clearly saying that you are willing to kill for your beliefs, and doing so would be justified because your beliefs are the one true correct system of beliefs, therefore you are self-righteous in killing... Not killing to protect you or your family, but to kill in the name of Christianity. Anyone who believes this needs a new church as they truly have no idea who Christ was, apparently.

My own near-death experience solidified my belief in God. I know without question that God is pure love, and I know without question that God's love is UNCONDITIONAL and FREE to every man, woman and child. This realization and experience of truth has ruined my belief in any organized religion. Who knows, maybe one day you too will have an NDE and you too will find truth. In the meantime, I would avoid preaching hatred and division disguised as the love of Christ.

 

[Yoder]

More "us vs. them" rhetoric. So what you are saying is that your kids won't ever have the ability to become a physician, an airline pilot, an engineer, an attorney, etc, because colleges are all left-wing brainwashing institutions.... Got it!

Most colleges are brainwashing institutions. Stop funding them. Only pay for a college that isn't like that, if there are any. Parents are ridiculous when it comes to college. There's no budget, no rules, just "follow your dreams". How about, go to the college I say is ok, or pay for it yourself.

 

[Marbles]

To answer everyone of your question specifically and directly - God, Family, Country(read as beginning with local community and then working outwards) in that order of precedence. God is placed ahead of all things, at all times. Then my Family, followed by my community.

It really doesn't need to be made any more complicated than that.

So, were does turning in a family member for committing murder fall in there?

Did the father of CKs killer break that order by putting community before family?

Or, did he sacrifice his son to avoid dishonoring God?

Or, did he sacrifice his son for his own self-righteousness?

In concept it is simple, but in execution it becomes complex. Example, you have directly stated I believe demonic things for saying I put the service of Christ before my family.

I would also argue the man who will consign others to death simply to protect his family (as in my war example) is a loathsome creature. All are my family, all have competing claims on me, some stronger than others, my obligation is to balance those as best I can.

If you have an adult child who is in the process of violently killing an innocent non-family member, your moral obligation is to stop it with whatever methods you are allowed. If I would kill a stranger to stop them from doing the same to my child, then I must also be willing to kill my child to protect the stranger, else everything is just a self serving mess of circular reasoning.

 

[alaska_bou]

Turns out, the shooter was from a gun-loving mormon MAGA family who donated to conservative causes. The shooter spent only one month at college before dropping out, so the indoctrination claim is just as bogus as every other accusation and assumption people on this site have made.

And to think that several on this site basically called for a left vs right civil war, assuming this was as assassination by "them."

 

[OKHunter84]

What is permitted for one man is not permitted for another. For some christians, it is sin to drink alcohol, but it is not a sin for all christians. For some men it would be sin to commit violence, for others it would be a sin to not commit violence.

This is ultimately much like the reason for CK's killing.. The shooter clearly thought that his ideology is the only way to a more perfect democratic republic and any dissenting idea was worth killing. Just because someone's limitations are different from yours does not make them wrong.

I don't agree with this.

Sin is sin. There was ten commandments for a reason.

I was simply stating that I wouldn't care if it was sin when it came to protecting my family. I don't believe God would expect me to sit by and watch though.

You are correct in saying that the shooter feels justified. I'm sure he does. Same as a crusader, suicide bomber or genocidal maniac in Rwanda.

 

[woods89]

When I posted, the Anabaptists were on my mind. Truly compelling witnesses to powerful truths. I'm not Anabaptist, and there are many things to say about the matter, but their (your) conviction, courage, and audacity have been proven over and over again and, in my view at least, are beyond doubt. Well put.

Thank you, sir. My life has truly been easy compared to many of my ancestors in the past.

 

[Poser]

It appears that views change dramatically once the initial assumptions no longer align with reality.

36 hours later:

 

[ThorM465]

It is absurd to suggest morality, or any sense of rights vs. wrong, can only be offered with a subscription to a religion. But then again, that is part of the sales pitch to people who lack critical thinking. Just ignore the prayers that have been answered to the Hindus, the Muslims, the Mormons, the Atheists, etc, and ignore the millions and millions of very good non-Christians who help others just as Jesus preached. My own life experience has taught me that those who constantly profess just how "Christian" they are are 100% the ones who will lie, cheat, steal, molest, etc. Over and over again I have seen this. It isn't a coincidence.

There have been bad actors of virtually every significant religion who have done this same evil act. I'm tired of ignorant people making this a uniquely Christian problem.

It's absurd to suggest that society can function absent a moral foundation based in a righteous religion in the face of a century of data that directly contradicts this assertion. A couple generations into a secular society we no longer know what a man and woman is, we're castrating our children, our children are being murdered within their schools, babies are murdered in the womb by the million per year. Secularism has been a catastrophic disaster. You cannot point to any secular society that has been successful long term. At best they've been overtaken by a strong religious society and at worst it has been a murderous disaster.

Some of you are clearly saying that you are willing to kill for your beliefs, and doing so would be justified because your beliefs are the one true correct system of beliefs, therefore you are self-righteous in killing... Not killing to protect you or your family, but to kill in the name of Christianity. Anyone who believes this needs a new church as they truly have no idea who Christ was, apparently.

I've not said that, but it is true. Fortunately, as a Christian I have the truth on my side and violence is not necessary to assure victory. All I need is an open market place of ideas where my ideas can exist safely. When that no longer exists, when my family is not safe because our religion our hand is forced. Let me be very clear that I don't want violence, I don't seek it, but I will not allow my family to go quietly into the night.

So, were does turning in a family member for committing murder fall in there?

Did the father of CKs killer break that order by putting community before family?

Or, did he sacrifice his son to avoid dishonoring God?

Or, did he sacrifice his son for his own self-righteousness?

In concept it is simple, but in execution it becomes complex. Example, you have directly stated I believe demonic things for saying I put the service of Christ before my family.

I would also argue the man who will consign others to death simply to protect his family (as in my war example) is a loathsome creature. All are my family, all have competing claims on me, some stronger than others, my obligation is to balance those as best I can.

If you have an adult child who is in the process of violently killing an innocent non-family member, your moral obligation is to stop it with whatever methods you are allowed. If I would kill a stranger to stop them from doing the same to my child, then I must also be willing to kill my child to protect the stranger, else everything is just a self serving mess of circular reasoning.

Let's cut right to it. You're referencing the father who turned in his son for assassinating Charlie Kirk.

Honestly, I'm currently struggling with this one and don't have a clear answer today. Some on the right are touting the Father as a good man who did the right thing. I can't justify a Father turning in his son into the state, no matter how much I want to see medieval justice brought to that demon. I also can't outright condemn him either. The only thing I can get to right now is that fact that if I were to find myself in this position I've catastrophically failed as a Father many times before we got to this point. As we've already said eternity is the point, not this life. I think what it would come down to is what is the best path towards reclaiming his soul.

 

[ThorM465]

It appears that views change dramatically once the initial assumptions no longer align with reality.

36 hours later:

I'd argue as a Christian we should hold both these views simultaneously.

On a side note, I can't stand that woman.

 

[woods89]

The "common response" is the correct response. You're able to exist for two reasons. 1: Meek men willing to do violence on your behalf. 2: You're a small minority that are able to pass yourselves off as a non-threat. That works as long as you remain a small enough and quite enough minority. We see this tactic in the animal kingdom from some species.

I'm not by any stretch nor have I seen any other Christian deny the power of the protective hand of our God. However, God has bestowed into some of us the ability to protect ourselves and others. Denying the strength God has bestowed upon us is to deny him. I don't pray to God for him to protect me or to resolve my problems. I pray he gives me the strength to protect those I love and the resolve to solve my own problems. I pray he does this to enough God fearing men in my community that my Family is protected when I'm not present.



I struggled with the story of Abraham climbing the mountain and wasn't able to understand it until I became a Father. God sent Abraham to the top of the mountain to do the unthinkable. The most difficult thing that he could ask of any Father or any Mother. Ultimately, God stopped Abraham and made it clear that he would not ask that sacrifice of Abraham or us. Then, God sent his one and only son whom he allowed to be sacrificed so that we could spend eternity in his presence. You see Abraham climbing the mountain was a prophecy. God wanted us to understand that he loves us so much that he would not only not ask us to make the unthinkable sacrifice, God took it upon himself to make that sacrifice for us.

I'd state it differently, in that I exist 100% because God allows me to.

I don't want this to be perceived as disrespectful in the least. My parents were in the Phillipines when I was young, and I've been by the big cemetary there. The gravity of the rows of white crosses is not lost on me. I don't pretend to know how to order society, but if, as you stated, God is first in my life that places ultimate significance in the teachings of
Christ.

As to being a small group and flying under the radar, what do you think the result would be if a quarter or half of this country, or world, spent a little time each day with the teachings of Christ and really internalized them? I personally think life would be almost unrecognizably better.

I have had this conversation with people here and there over the last 25 or so years, and I expect to win few friends over it. That's ok.

As far as protecting your family, what does that mean? Pretty wide field, not?

And I definitely see the story of Abraham and Isaac a bit differently.........