Lost big bull, possible broadhead/equipment issue?

[cgasner1]

shot that bull at 76 yards the broad head is sticking out of the opposite shoulder it broke threw the blade I peeled the meat back of and checked put your arrow where it needs to be and it will be a done deal the whole this head did this thing is getting ridiculous


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brandon_SPC]

With all the knowledge and recommendations online, i dont see why anyone still tries to rely on a straight mechanical head for elk. I used a gravedigger hybrid on my last two bull kills this year and last year. However, the penetration still isnt satisfactory and I will be using magnus stinger 100 fixed blades next year.

Have you shot the stingers? Reason I ask is because I have had a few fail on whitetails. Great company but the ones I had fail, the blade would break in front of the ferrule. Also a group I am part of they have shared a few failure with stingers. The first one was on a bull elk, the rest were on whitetails.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

shot that bull at 76 yards the broad head is sticking out of the opposite shoulder it broke threw the blade I peeled the meat back of and checked put your arrow where it needs to be and it will be a done deal the whole this head did this thing is getting ridiculous


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's the thing, in the OP the arrow was put where it should go....

 

[KHNC]

Have you shot the stingers? Reason I ask is because I have had a few fail on whitetails. Great company but the ones I had fail, the blade would break in front of the ferrule. Also a group I am part of they have shared a few failure with stingers. The first one was on a bull elk, the rest were on whitetails.

Well, that looks disappointing. Just bought the stingers. My elk hunting buddy has been with me on two of his bull kills with Stingers. Both performed well with a nice blood trail. I used Ramcats on LOTS of deer, hogs, turkeys and 1 elk. They performed great and are very tough. I just get tired of dealing with loose blades in my quiver on them. I will shoot some whitetail with stingers before i shoot an elk with them for sure.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Have you shot the stingers? Reason I ask is because I have had a few fail on whitetails. Great company but the ones I had fail, the blade would break in front of the ferrule. Also a group I am part of they have shared a few failure with stingers. The first one was on a bull elk, the rest were on whitetails.

Interesting. Any similar failures with the black hornets? I was thinking about giving those a shot as I like the profile and thick blades.

Hard to argue with the performance I've had with slick trick magnums though. My deer this year was a steep quartering to with a steep down angle shot. High front shoulder hit and the arrow traveled practically the full length of the body, exiting low just in front of the offside rear leg. I found the arrow another 30yds downhill. Broadhead still looks brand new.

The deer piled up in about 70yds. I think most of that was momentum since it took off like a bat out of hell downhill at the shot.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Well, that looks disappointing. Just bought the stingers. My elk hunting buddy has been with me on two of his bull kills with Stingers. Both performed well with a nice blood trail. I used Ramcats on LOTS of deer, hogs, turkeys and 1 elk. They performed great and are very tough. I just get tired of dealing with loose blades in my quiver on them. I will shoot some whitetail with stingers before i shoot an elk with them for sure.

Trying not to steer you away just wanted to give a heads up. I hate seeing someone loose an animal to equipment failure when there are better options out there, for the same price. I just think the stingers fair way better with light poundage bows vs what a lot of us shoot. I have never seen one fail from a low poundage bow and they are still a great company to deal with. Now the Black Hornets they have are tough broadheads. Even though they have a steep blade angle I would use those over the stingers in a heart beat.

 

[lang]

Where is the shooter in relation to the camera?....looks like he hits way too far back too if he is close to the camera on a quartering to shot. If he even hit a lung the back periphery of the back of a lung is not like hitting one lung close to the pump house with major arteries all over the place. The farther from the heart you get the vascularity decreases exponentially. Multiple issues- arrow angled back, hit too far back for quartering to shot, no penetration, good chance that bull lives.
There is an old Primos hunt that they hit a bull with a Rage similar location, but broadside and they recover the bull, but anyone that see's the lack of penetration should question ever using on elk if a rib can keep it from penetrating like that regardless of arrow weight and draw length. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[lang]

Just too many great heads to compromise penetration with elk. The shot is at 8 min mark.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Interesting. Any similar failures with the black hornets? I was thinking about giving those a shot as I like the profile and thick blades.

Hard to argue with the performance I've had with slick trick magnums though. My deer this year was a steep quartering to with a steep down angle shot. High front shoulder hit and the arrow traveled practically the full length of the body, exiting low just in front of the offside rear leg. I found the arrow another 30yds downhill. Broadhead still looks brand new.

The deer piled up in about 70yds. I think most of that was momentum since it took off like a bat out of hell downhill at the shot.

Black Hornets I would shoot if I was solely stuck on shooting Magnus.

Kind of off topic but I look at hunting like this. I spent roughly $650 on a non resident tag, roughly $300 in fuel, $250 in food, time in the gym, miles ran, ruck marches done in preparation for the hunt, time taken off for the hunt, time away from family, 1600 miles driven there and 1600 miles back, 60+ miles hiked on the mountain, etc. The last thing I want is a broadhead or arrow failure because I didn't purchase quality (within reason). Which is why I shoot a footed arrow, an arrow with thick walls, and a monolithic broadhead.

 

[92xj]

That's the thing, in the OP the arrow was put where it should go....

If that was the case we would be seeing a dead elk, no matter the Broadhead. I disagree that the arrow was placed in the correct spot for a quick kill, though I do feel that elk is dead with a liver shot.

 

[Doug_Flutie]

I had a rage get hung up on a personal best whitetail rib.....good shot. Still got some penetration. First animal I wasn't able to recover. Needless to say, I switched arrow weight, broadhead (single bevel), and draw weight. Mechanicals work great till they don't.

 

[jmez]

I had a similar experience with the Black Hornets as Brandon did with the Stingers. I shot 3 deer with three Black Hornets and all 3 broke at the top of the ferrule just like in the pictures. I bent and broke several of them in my 3-D targets. Good company, bad design with that head.

I shoot my broadheads a lot and have used several different kinds. I tear some up. Never had issues like I did with the Black Hornet. I broke/bent several of them.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

If that was the case we would be seeing a dead elk, no matter the Broadhead. I disagree that the arrow was placed in the correct spot for a quick kill, though I do feel that elk is dead with a liver shot.

Well whether it hit a rib a little forward or where it was at more than likely he would have still got the same penetration and animals shot in one lung can run a long ways. Granted there is more to penetration than just the broadhead but the current arrow weight set up could be made more efficient by picking a more efficient head.

I had a similar experience with the Black Hornets as Brandon. I shot 3 deer with them and all 3 broke at the top of the ferrule just like in the pictures. I bent and broke several of them in my 3-D targets. Good company, bad design with that head.

I shoot my broadheads a lot and have used several different kinds. I tear some up. Never had issues like I did with the Black Hornet. I broke/bent several of them.

Well that's definitely good to know about the black hornet. I will stop recommending them.

 

[Ratbeetle]

I had a similar experience with the Black Hornets as Brandon did with the Stingers. I shot 3 deer with three Black Hornets and all 3 broke at the top of the ferrule just like in the pictures. I bent and broke several of them in my 3-D targets. Good company, bad design with that head.

I shoot my broadheads a lot and have used several different kinds. I tear some up. Never had issues like I did with the Black Hornet. I broke/bent several of them.

Well that's disappointing.

 

[Ratbeetle]

Black Hornets I would shoot if I was solely stuck on shooting Magnus.

Kind of off topic but I look at hunting like this. I spent roughly $650 on a non resident tag, roughly $300 in fuel, $250 in food, time in the gym, miles ran, ruck marches done in preparation for the hunt, time taken off for the hunt, time away from family, 1600 miles driven there and 1600 miles back, 60+ miles hiked on the mountain, etc. The last thing I want is a broadhead or arrow failure because I didn't purchase quality (within reason). Which is why I shoot a footed arrow, an arrow with thick walls, and a monolithic broadhead.

Completely agree. But over the 25+ years I've been archery hunting, I can't think of a time when I've had a broadhead failure. I shot Wasp and Muzzy for a looooong time with no problems. Recently used Montecs and the Slicktrick magnums.

I like the flight I get with the compact heads the best and have found I personally see consistently better blood trails with 4 blade heads. I don't shoot past 60yds, so I feel with a modern 70lb+ compound, I'm not giving up much on the penetration side by using 4 blades or bleeders.

I have single bevel, two blades for my trad bows but I'm not convinced they're necessary for elk and deer with today's compounds. I'm already blowing completely through animals as it is.

The black hornets looked like the ticket for me. Shame.

 

[jog]

Just too many great heads to compromise penetration with elk.

X2. Many head designs that have a good chance of failure are pretty obvious to anyone who has a basic understanding of how things work. Long thin blades, moving parts, multiple pieces. These all add to chances of failure especially on shots that will magnify these design flaws- bone, angle, moving muscle groups, stored energy at impact etc. I am one who thinks a BH should be chosen with its worst case performance considered not its best case performance.
And why risk it? I agree with the comments that highlight how we justify the reasons we use heads that are prone to failure right out of the box due to their design; larger blood trails, bigger holes, sexier, the latest new thing.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Completely agree. But over the 25+ years I've been archery hunting, I can't think of a time when I've had a broadhead failure. I shot Wasp and Muzzy for a looooong time with no problems. Recently used Montecs and the Slicktrick magnums.

I like the flight I get with the compact heads the best and have found I personally see consistently better blood trails with 4 blade heads. I don't shoot past 60yds, so I feel with a modern 70lb+ compound, I'm not giving up much on the penetration side by using 4 blades or bleeders.

I have single bevel, two blades for my trad bows but I'm not convinced they're necessary for elk and deer with today's compounds. I'm already blowing completely through animals as it is.

The black hornets looked like the ticket for me. Shame.

Completely understandable. I guess I started shooting single bevels when a hunting experience went south on a 90lb doe (size of a fat Labrador) I shot here in Florida. My set up was an Elite E35 at 72lb, 450 grain arrow, and a 125 grain slicktrick standard. The doe moved toward me as I shot, arrow hit the humerus and barely got enough penetration to puncture a lung. I ended up having to shoot her a second time. Then my thoughts were "if this happened on a small deer what would happen on a big hog or elk?"

That's when I started experimenting with trying to find an arrow weight where I am comfortable with the trajectory of the arrow. That's why I now shoot a 600 grain arrow with some kind of well built single bevel, 2 blade cut on contact, or a 2 blade cut on contact with bleeders.

 

[corey006]

Elk or Moose what I have learned....

Shoot highest poundage bow you can.

If low on k.e and Momentum increase arrow weight.

Match the broad head to your setup.

Large mechs or 4 blade heads with large cut are best reserved for higher k.e and Momentum setups....like minimum 70 lbs and higher.

If shooting a 60 lb compound a 3 blade fixed blade or C.O.C head with razor sharp blades.....I wouldn't shoot a mech on a 60 lb bow.

Tune your bow.

Keep foc high.

Great thread...

 

[Ratbeetle]

Completely understandable. I guess I started shooting single bevels when a hunting experience went south on a 90lb doe (size of a fat Labrador) I shot here in Florida. My set up was an Elite E35 at 72lb, 450 grain arrow, and a 125 grain slicktrick standard. The doe moved toward me as I shot, arrow hit the humerus and barely got enough penetration to puncture a lung. I ended up having to shoot her a second time. Then my thoughts were "if this happened on a small deer what would happen on a big hog or elk?"

That's when I started experimenting with trying to find an arrow weight where I am comfortable with the trajectory of the arrow. That's why I now shoot a 600 grain arrow with some kind of well built single bevel, 2 blade cut on contact, or a 2 blade cut on contact with bleeders.

Maybe I've just been fortunate on my hits. I'm definitely a believer in arrows on the heavier side with adequate FOC. I'm sitting at 546 grains now but I shoot an older (2014) mathews that isn't a speed demon, so I'm content here for now.

In your experience, what are some good, compact 2 blade with bleeder heads? Iron Will? Anything else?

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Maybe I've just been fortunate on my hits. I'm definitely a believer in arrows on the heavier side with adequate FOC. I'm sitting at 546 grains now but I shoot an older (2014) mathews that isn't a speed demon, so I'm content here for now.

In your experience, what are some good, compact 2 blade with bleeder heads? Iron Will? Anything else?

Good compact two blade with bleeders. There isn't a lot because the majority have weak replacement blades with average aluminum ferrules.
-Ironwill
-Looking at the construction DaySix should be great especially the steel they are made from
- Toot of the arrow. The 175 grain NON vented one. I have sheared the blades off the vented ones in some testing I have done.
-Schwacker Razor 254 looks promising. The main blade is .072" thick from 420 stainless. I just do not know how hard the blades are.
- SteelForce phat head also looks promising. They have a .080" main blade but I do not know how durable the ferrule is.

Personally me I would probably shoot the Day Six broadhead. I like the fact that they are made from S30V steel, the bleeder is in front of the ferrule vs the a traditional cut on contact where the bleeder sit at the back of the ferrule. They are also solids blades with a decent mechanical advantage, granted they don't have the tanto tip like the Ironwill but the way the blade is shaped along with the steel used I wouldn't worry to much.