Looking to buy a Garand, what do I need to know?

[bpitcher]

Great rifles.

If you're close enough, the CMP stores will allow you to hand pick your rifle from the racks available. I'm not sure what inventory looks like these days, but they used to advise calling ahead to check.

 

[2531usmc]

The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr.

I understand the part about not buying ammo over 172 gr. But how do you know if the ammo you are purchasing is less than 50,000 CUP?

 

[RockAndSage]

GCA article exerpts on Garands and ammo.

View attachment 799850


View attachment 799851


View attachment 799852


View attachment 799853

I think I owe you an apology, friend. Your images here from the article caused me to go down something of a rabbit hole, where I also found this post/article - which appears pretty exhaustive on actual testing of the subject.

From what you posted, and this article I'm sharing, it seems this issue of non "Garand safe" ammo causing bent op-rods is yet again another piece of Fuddlore. As you said. It is absolutely astounding how powerful that crap becomes engrained and endemic in the shooting culture. And once "everybody knows", it's just God's truth until beaten to death with excessive volumes of science and public ridicule.

Here's the link: https://www.m14forum.com/threads/commercial-ammo-in-the-garand-test-results.542477/

Short version: they pretty much tested/shot all the ammo they could find, and found zero problems with the op-rod. It might still be advisable to get that plug, avoid heavier bullets, etc, but as far as I'm concerned, at this point, the science says it's a non-issue. Thanks for sharing what you did.

 

[RockAndSage]

I understand the part about not buying ammo over 172 gr. But how do you know if the ammo you are purchasing is less than 50,000 CUP?

OP, this is the load data for dozens and dozens of loads the engineers fired out of Garands in the testing article I posted a link to above, including chamber pressures. It's extremely interesting:

 

[Rotnguns]

I think I owe you an apology, friend. Your images here from the article caused me to go down something of a rabbit hole, where I also found this post/article - which appears pretty exhaustive on actual testing of the subject.

From what you posted, and this article I'm sharing, it seems this issue of non "Garand safe" ammo causing bent op-rods is yet again another piece of Fuddlore. As you said. It is absolutely astounding how powerful that crap becomes engrained and endemic in the shooting culture. And once "everybody knows", it's just God's truth until beaten to death with excessive volumes of science and public ridicule.

Here's the link: https://www.m14forum.com/threads/commercial-ammo-in-the-garand-test-results.542477/

Short version: they pretty much tested/shot all the ammo they could find, and found zero problems with the op-rod. It might still be advisable to get that plug, avoid heavier bullets, etc, but as far as I'm concerned, at this point, the science says it's a non-issue. Thanks for sharing what you did.

Excellent and informative post. The Schuster plug was developed not to protect the op rod, but for the service marksmanship teams to tune the gas vent so that the Garands would function with loads using heavier bullets for longer distances. There is also a plug made for the M1A.

 

[Rotnguns]

OP, this is the load data for dozens and dozens of loads the engineers fired out of Garands in the testing article I posted a link to above, including chamber pressures. It's extremely interesting:

Very interesting! I found this great website that gives a wonderful and detailed explanation of the operation of the M1 Garand, with pictures and graphs; https://m1-garand-rifle.com/gas-pressure.html#google_vignette

But I'm a bit confused, because the source I linked shows pressure peaks an order of magnitude lower than the data source that you linked. Going to investigate further...

Edit: Found an interesting thread on the M14 that claims gas pressure in the cylinder is much reduced from the gas pressure at the port of the barrel due to flow through the port restriction. Using the information provided in the M1 Garand vignette link, with a piston diameter of about 0.526 inches, with a pressure peak of about 1100 psi acting on the piston face, the piston experiences an impulsive force of about 240 pounds. Trivial, given the cross-sectional area of that op rod. And to note - the force peaks over only about half a millisecond; the inertia of the op rod, piston, and bolt are sufficient to keep the whole assembly from moving until the bullet clears the barrel; once the recoil system begins to accelerate, the impulsive force is considerably reduced. It's highly questionable whether the stress field can be fully developed in the op rod under such a brief impulsive load; rendering claims of op-rod damage due to buckling very questionable.

https://www.m14forum.com/threads/m1-garand-port-pressure.477480/

 

[awpk03s]

1) You said buy “a” Garand, as in singular. You need to know that these easily turn into a plural inventory item.

2) Buy from CMP.

3) Greek HXP milsurp ammo is great stuff if you can get a good buy in this day and age.

4) Hornady manual lists some Garand specific load data that I’ve had good success with.

 

[Rams horns]

If you are thinking about buying an M1, my best advice is to read everything you can get your hands on about them. You need to know what to look for. These rifles have been bouncing around for 70+ years, and sometimes abused for the same amount of time.

Years back I bought an M1. It was a Springfield 1943 issue. I lucked out and it was a non-import, had a great crown and bore with a very good gas system, This was about 30 years ago, and I think it was about $600 back then. Pretty sure it would be worth a lot more today.

Things I've learned to look for: check the muzzle/crown for wear. Look at the bore for condition (these were used when corrosive ammo was the norm). Check out the gas system, the end of the operating rod and the gas port for excessive wear. Look at the receiver closely: there was a time when many M1s were "de-milled" (cut in two with a torch) and the pieces sold, and then re-welded back together - you DON'T want to get stuck with one of these rifles! Check the over-all condition of the trigger group for excessively loose parts.

If you can - go thru the DCM for your M1. The chances of getting stuck with a 'clunker' is far less than buying on on-line or at a gun show from someone you will never see again. If you DO get an M1 rifle - do yourself a GIANT favor and stick with CORRECT U.S. made .30 M2 or Match M-72 ammunition (or reloads of the same EXACT specifications) - and never let cheap foreign made ammo within 100 yards of that rifle.

Good luck!

 

[def90]

I think a lot of this "garand specific ammo" comes down to lawyers. You have a non profit selling 80 year old rifles, the safe bet is to tell people to use a downgraded load.

Next fuddlore.. .308 is not the same as 7.62x51..

 

[Choupique]

Buy from CMP.

This can't be said enough.

Buy a CMP that comes with a brand new barrel and stock and shoot the snot out of it.

 

[Schmo]

If you wish to shoot Garand specific ammo, I believe Hornady still loads it. I didn’t read those articles since I’m not super interested in Garands, but as @RockAndSage stated, that pressure issue and operating rod “issue” may very well be fuddlore and a non-issue.

I’ll say this about things we are learning, whether it’s “pressure” issues with Garands, scopes that retain zero, or what bullets are effective on game, Fuddlore is strong!

 

[def90]

If you wish to shoot Garand specific ammo, I believe Hornady still loads it. I didn’t read those articles since I’m not super interested in Garands, but as @RockAndSage stated, that pressure issue and operating rod “issue” may very well be fuddlore and a non-issue.

I’ll say this about things we are learning, whether it’s “pressure” issues with Garands, scopes that retain zero, or what bullets are effective on game, Fuddlore is strong!

Privy Partisan makes “garand” rated 30-06

 

[2531usmc]

If you wish to shoot Garand specific ammo, I believe Hornady still loads it. I didn’t read those articles since I’m not super interested in Garands, but as @RockAndSage stated, that pressure issue and operating rod “issue” may very well be fuddlore and a non-issue.

I’ll say this about things we are learning, whether it’s “pressure” issues with Garands, scopes that retain zero, or what bullets are effective on game, Fuddlore is strong!

I appreciate all of the input and advice. It’s been a great help.

And based on the input, I placed an order today for the rifle with the new stock and barrel!

Let’s see how long it takes to be mailed out!

Thanks again for all the help

 

[RockAndSage]

I appreciate all of the input and advice. It’s been a great help.

And based on the input, I placed an order today for the rifle with the new stock and barrel!

Let’s see how long it takes to be mailed out!

Thanks again for all the help

If you don't mind, definitely share photos when it comes in, would be fun to see.

 

[Choupique]

the rifle with the new stock and barrel!

Excellent choice. Congratulations.

 

[2531usmc]

If you don't mind, definitely share photos when it comes in, would be fun to see.

I will! Happy to do so!