Looking for some advice on Rifle Scopes and Suppressors.

[HandgunHTR]

The man the myth the legend said he no longer uses them for hard use. since then everyone started poo pooing them.

It really doesn't have anything to do with Form. I don't want to put words in the man's mouth, but I am pretty sure the only reason he isn't using his is because he has been testing/using the prototypes of the S2H scope.

The main reason why people are turning away from them is due to the inordinate price increase. The other providers who get their scopes from LOW, Tract being the main one that I know of, had a slight price increase (around 8%), but Maven decided an almost 30% price increase was warranted. They are still good scopes, but they aren't that good. I can get a used NF for that kind of money. I can also still get a Tract for less than $1000 with my military discount. I know that the Tract that Form tested didn't pass his drop test, but the two that I have passed my similar test and have served me quite well. Of course I am not as hard on my gear as some on this forum are and it may just be a matter of time, and I really like the Eagleman reticle on my second Tract. If it does crap out on a hunt and cost me an elk or deer, oh well. I don't hunt for the kill anymore. If I go on a OIAL hunt, I will take one of my other setups (most likely the ones with NF optics).

 

[flyfisher117]

It really doesn't have anything to do with Form. I don't want to put words in the man's mouth, but I am pretty sure the only reason he isn't using his is because he has been testing/using the prototypes of the S2H scope.

The main reason why people are turning away from them is due to the inordinate price increase. The other providers who get their scopes from LOW, Tract being the main one that I know of, had a slight price increase (around 8%), but Maven decided an almost 30% price increase was warranted. They are still good scopes, but they aren't that good. I can get a used NF for that kind of money. I can also still get a Tract for less than $1000 with my military discount. I know that the Tract that Form tested didn't pass his drop test, but the two that I have passed my similar test and have served me quite well. Of course I am not as hard on my gear as some on this forum are and it may just be a matter of time, and I really like the Eagleman reticle on my second Tract. If it does crap out on a hunt and cost me an elk or deer, oh well. I don't hunt for the kill anymore. If I go on a OIAL hunt, I will take one of my other setups (most likely the ones with NF optics).

They’re definitely not $1300+ scopes or what ever they charge now. Hence why I said I wouldn’t pay a dime over $1000 for one.

There has still been a shift where they magically aren’t as good and people recommending against them. Which is silly. Of the scopes we have on the market and available today they’re still just fine. So if OP needs one go snag one used and start using it today.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

They’re definitely not $1300+ scopes or what ever they charge now. Hence why I said I wouldn’t pay a dime over $1000 for one.

There has still been a shift where they magically aren’t as good and people recommending against them. Which is silly. Of the scopes we have on the market and available today they’re still just fine. So if OP needs one go snag one used and start using it today.

The shift was when SWFA 3-9x scopes began to be regularly in stock at $600. When those were not available, the Maven at below $1000 was a good alternative. But the Maven at $1400 versus the SWFA at $600 is a no-brainer. And that availability was what drove Form’s change in recommendation, which everyone is now repeating.

 

[flyfisher117]

The shift was when SWFA 3-9x scopes began to be regularly in stock at $600. When those were not available, the Maven at below $1000 was a good alternative. But the Maven at $1400 versus the SWFA at $600 is a no-brainer. And that availability was what drove Form’s change in recommendation, which everyone is now repeating.

They’re good too if they float one’s goat. After 16 years of owning SWFA I no longer have one in the safe. Maybe that will change if they can figure out how to keep their 6x in stock.

 

[omicron1792]

The shift was when SWFA 3-9x scopes began to be regularly in stock at $600. When those were not available, the Maven at below $1000 was a good alternative. But the Maven at $1400 versus the SWFA at $600 is a no-brainer. And that availability was what drove Form’s change in recommendation, which everyone is now repeating.

I hear you.

I saw the shift when s2h scope became real and form said a few negative comments on the maven. I even asked about the shift a couple of months ago.

Post in thread 'S2H winter class 2026 observations and lessons learned'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...tions-and-lessons-learned.441862/post-4593719

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I hear you.

I saw the shift when s2h scope became real and form said a few negative comments in maven.

That’s an entirely different reason to not get the Maven, except for the whole six-month wait.

If I needed a new scope next week, a new SWFA beats out the Maven. If I needed a new scope next month, a used NF beats out the Maven. If I need a new scope next year, the S2H scope beats them all out (except that the SWFA will always be a great budget option).

 

[omicron1792]

That’s an entirely different reason to not get the Maven, except for the whole six-month wait.

If I needed a new scope next week, a new SWFA beats out the Maven. If I needed a new scope next month, a used NF beats out the Maven. If I need a new scope next year, the S2H scope beats them all out (except that the SWFA will always be a great budget option).

I agree with you. That’s why I’ve never bought one.

To me, that doesn’t explain why most that were always recommending the Maven changed their tune.

Seems to be more authentic to just say “Maven is a great scope, I just want to try the new S2H. It looks even better.”

 

[LongWayAround]

I agree with you. That’s why I’ve never bought one.

To me, that doesn’t explain why most that were always recommending the Maven changed their tune.

Seems to be more authentic to just say “Maven is a great scope, I just want to try the new S2H. It looks even better.”

I have used the Maven quite a bit and think it's a great scope.

People complain that the turret spins too easily. Maybe it does. I have had mine move a couple of clicks while carrying it, definitely not multiple mils or anything.

They also say the illumination sucks. I wouldn't know about that because I never put the battery in.

I also got mine under $1000, not sure I would feel the same at $1400.

I'm interested in the s2h scope, but haven't had a rifle I needed one for yet.

Dollar to value : it's hard to argue against the swfa.

 

[LongWayAround]

It really doesn't have anything to do with Form. I don't want to put words in the man's mouth, but I am pretty sure the only reason he isn't using his is because he has been testing/using the prototypes of the S2H scope.

The main reason why people are turning away from them is due to the inordinate price increase. The other providers who get their scopes from LOW, Tract being the main one that I know of, had a slight price increase (around 8%), but Maven decided an almost 30% price increase was warranted. They are still good scopes, but they aren't that good. I can get a used NF for that kind of money. I can also still get a Tract for less than $1000 with my military discount. I know that the Tract that Form tested didn't pass his drop test, but the two that I have passed my similar test and have served me quite well. Of course I am not as hard on my gear as some on this forum are and it may just be a matter of time, and I really like the Eagleman reticle on my second Tract. If it does crap out on a hunt and cost me an elk or deer, oh well. I don't hunt for the kill anymore. If I go on a OIAL hunt, I will take one of my other setups (most likely the ones with NF optics).

I think it has almost everything to do with his comments.

Form said it's good to go in the drop test and Maven couldn't keep it in stock.

Form said he quit using it. People start selling them.

It's a pretty direct correlation.

Their price increase definitely hurt new sales, but didn't affect current owners who decided to sell.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I think it has almost everything to do with his comments.

Form said it's good to go in the drop test and Maven couldn't keep it in stock.

Form said he quit using it. People start selling them.

It's a pretty direct correlation.

Their price increase definitely hurt new sales, but didn't affect current owners who decided to sell.

I agree completely.

One offhand comment about Mamba magazines being slightly superior to Waters magazines was enough to make Mambas unobtainable and Waters borderline unsalable.

People are buying $150 scope bumpers because someone saw a pair on a picture of one of his rifles, asked about them, tracked them down, and he said they were more durable than $15 Butler Creeks… and that might be important in a “must get this shot off” hunt scenario.

If Butler Creek came out with an option that was better than the scope bumpers, Form would try them out, use them hard, report on it, and Butler Creek would sell a ton of them. And the classifieds would be full of scope bumper caps for sale. (I will note that I sold my scope bumpers yesterday because I hate them. And they lasted less than five minutes on the classifieds. If Form did the same, the company would probably go out of business.).

The man’s following and influence is real and the only thing that keeps it in check is his personal integrity. Which he has in abundance.

 

[scaast]

Brakes are for sissies.

Oh, absolutely! Let's use that airtight logic to rewrite the guidelines:

Brakes: sissy
Recoil pads: sissy
Suppressors: Big sissy (be a man...go deaf)
Scopes, optics, and range finders: sissy...real men use iron sights and range estimation
Carbon fiber: Big sissy...real mean like heavy sh*t
Adjustable trigger: sissy...real men like heavy, sloppy triggers
Bipods, tripods, shooting bags: sissy...real men shoot offhand
Slings: sissy...carry that heavy POS