Looking for a wagon, commuting and road trips

[IH8Cali]

Does anyone have any experience with the VW/Audi/Subaru wagons? I'm specifically looking for something of the 1999-2008 vintage and it has to be a manual. I simply want something for back and forth to work ~50 miles non-interstate, but also something for long fishing trips. I'm not afraid to throw a deer in the back either, definitely want a wagon.

I'm leaning toward the Jetta wagon with the TDI because of mpg, but the MK4s seem to crumble and fall apart from the inside out. They're also very few and far between. The Audi's have me leery due to cost of ownership, and i've never had a Subaru. I do 90% of maintenance and repairs myself, so that helps a bit. I sold my diesel truck and bought two Power Wagons; not the best for commuting or long weekends.

Any insight is greatly appreciated; are there any other platforms i'm missing? Thanks!

 

[BRTreedogs]

VW have always had loks of electronic problems. Power windows, locks etc.
I would only buy a TDI if it had extensive dealer service records or the owner assured me that he used OEM oil.
When the US changed the oil spec from I believe cj to ck in about 2012 they dropped the zinc in most oils to keep the dpf on newer diesels from plugging.
So the cams in the tdi go flat.

From my research 2014 was the 1st year subaru really started figuring out there headgasket problems.

So pretty much its a roll of the nice on any of these older cars.

Audi just no thanks.

My suggestion would be a Rav 4 or an Isuzu Tracker

 

[Rich M]

I have a nephew who does VW-Audi repairs for a living, he's told us not to buy VW.

Subaru, Toyota, Honda seem to run the longest with the least amount of repairs.

 

[Moose63Pa]

TDI club has a ton of information on the vehicles as well as a classified section that seems to have some good deals if you are willing to travel to get it. Im looking for one myself.

 

[IH8Cali]

I wish Toyota made a wagon through the 2000's, I can't stand the look of the Rav4 or Highlander. I had a couple Land Cruisers, and while stout, are the commuters i'm looking for. There was a Camry (I think) wagon in the late 90s, that might be an option and likely relatively cheap...until you get it home and have to replace everything on a nearly 30 year old car.

 

[IH8Cali]

TDI club has a ton of information on the vehicles as well as a classified section that seems to have some good deals if you are willing to travel to get it. Im looking for one myself.

Yeah i've been lurking over there a bit. The only problem I have with car/truck forums is they can sometimes provide a false sense of the vehicle's reliability; everyone only comes online to complain.

 

[def90]

A friend of mine had an Audi wagon and loved it and eventually moved to a bigger wagon/suv cross Volvo and loved that as well.

Everyone I know that has had a VW eventually got nickle and dimed with stupid stuff like the electric windows quit working and so on. It seems like you want to dump them off at 80-100k before things start to get rolling.

 

[seww]

We bought an Audi A6 TDI wagon in 1998, new. Back then in Sweden it was just around $40k.
It went through my dad, he couldn't care less about cars, my older sister, and me for a while before we sold it for cheapo.
We drove it from 0 to circa 223,000 miles. Solid as hell, except for the front part of the car, which is a known issue on them. We drove it through our coldest day, -46C that's almost -51F, without a problem.

It was great on the highways, felt like driving a train. Easy to speed for sure, you couldn't tell if you were going 50 or 120.

Toyota got the Venza wagon, not sure when it came out. 4wd.
Subaru Outbacks are always dependable, except those years 1998-2002 or so, seems like every headgasket went on them. Guess Subaru still have issues. Maybe the diesels are better?

 

[IH8Cali]

We bought an Audi A6 TDI wagon in 1998, new. Back then in Sweden it was just around $40k.
It went through my dad, he couldn't care less about cars, my older sister, and me for a while before we sold it for cheapo.
We drove it from 0 to circa 223,000 miles. Solid as hell, except for the front part of the car, which is a known issue on them. We drove it through our coldest day, -46C that's almost -51F, without a problem.

It was great on the highways, felt like driving a train. Easy to speed for sure, you couldn't tell if you were going 50 or 120.

Toyota got the Venza wagon, not sure when it came out. 4wd.
Subaru Outbacks are always dependable, except those years 1998-2002 or so, seems like every headgasket went on them. Guess Subaru still have issues. Maybe the diesels are better?

Thank you, really appreciate the perspective and experience. There's an A4 wagon in town, can't remember the year (maybe 2006), that seems to be solid. An 02' Outback with what sounds like a completely rebuilt motor and suspension. Some good options, hearing good pros and cons about everything.

 

[seww]

Thank you, really appreciate the perspective and experience. There's an A4 wagon in town, can't remember the year (maybe 2006), that seems to be solid. An 02' Outback with what sounds like a completely rebuilt motor and suspension. Some good options, hearing good pros and cons about everything.

You're welcome!
We're now a strict Toyota family though. Audi and other brands are nice, but as far as I know, Toyota is the only brand that has a serious quality testing before they release their cars.
In Europe you'd have several Toyota wagon choices. There's the Avensis and Corolla in wagon models. They're simple, 2wd models that refuse to die.
There's also the Hilux and Land Cruisers with diesel.

 

[ewade07]

I just bought a 95 subaru legacy wagon L (1500$!!!). Has 119k original miles and the 2.2L engine (subarus best engine). Bought it from a guy who used it as a commuter rig for fishing and his parents to use when they visited in the summer. I used it to replace a 98 outback that i knew wouldnt last me much longer. The outback had more ground clearance but i trust the 95 legacy more. When i owned it i took the outback everywhere: fishing, deer/antelope hunting, shed hunting, commuter vehicle. I plan on putting some bigger shocks/struts to lift the legacy a bit more. If you go the route of an older outback make sure the head gaskets are good, and i would stick with a 96-99 model. The early 2000 models werent very good, my mom had a 2003 and the head gaskets had to be replaced multiple times.

 

[IH8Cali]

I just bought a 95 subaru legacy wagon L (1500$!!!). Has 119k original miles and the 2.2L engine (subarus best engine). Bought it from a guy who used it as a commuter rig for fishing and his parents to use when they visited in the summer. I used it to replace a 98 outback that i knew wouldnt last me much longer. The outback had more ground clearance but i trust the 95 legacy more. When i owned it i took the outback everywhere: fishing, deer/antelope hunting, shed hunting, commuter vehicle. I plan on putting some bigger shocks/struts to lift the legacy a bit more. If you go the route of an older outback make sure the head gaskets are good, and i would stick with a 96-99 model. The early 2000 models werent very good, my mom had a 2003 and the head gaskets had to be replaced multiple times.

Thank you very much for that, sounds like everything i'm looking for to do as well! I have seen quite a few ads referencing replaced head gaskets etc., i wasn't sure if this was from overheating or something, but it sounds like a design flaw or poor parts run that should be corrected by now. I remember hearing about the head issues years ago, but only began considering them here very recently.

 

[fmyth]

Thank you very much for that, sounds like everything i'm looking for to do as well! I have seen quite a few ads referencing replaced head gaskets etc., i wasn't sure if this was from overheating or something, but it sounds like a design flaw or poor parts run that should be corrected by now. I remember hearing about the head issues years ago, but only began considering them here very recently.

The Subaru headgasket issue is caused by the configuration of the cylinders. Nearly everyone but Subaru builds an inline 4 cylinder engine with vertical cylinders. Subaru uses the "boxer' design with 2 cylinders on each oposing side. The cylinders are horizontal which means the head gaskets are always wet even when the engine is not running. The water/coolant eventually breaks down the gasket material which eventually causes a coolant leak. The coolant leak can be internal or external but usually causes overheating and subsequently warped or cracked cylinder heads. Changing the head gaskets on an oposing cylinder overhead cam engine is a PITA and more than the average shade tree mechanic is willing to tackle on the weekend. Most shops bill 12 hours to do the job and most cars will need the heads resurfaced. While they have it apart you may as well change the water pump, belts and hoses. I'd guess that a big percentage of older Subarus you'll find listed for sale are being sold because the owner can't afford the $2500-3500 get the head gaskets replaced. My wife lovers her Subaru but when it runs out of warranty it will be traded for a new one.

 

[puckhead]

I can give a little insight to Subarus, I'm a service writer at a dealer. The 4cyl engines up to 2011-12 suffer from head gasket issues. The rubber sealing ridges on the gaskets wear/blow out between the different jackets between cyl head and engine. Usually it fails either at the perimeter and allows oil to leak or the seal between exhaust outlet and cooling jacket fails and you get exhaust in the coolant, causing overheating and head warping. Any 4cyl(non-turbo) engine with a timing belt system is susceptible to this, regardless of year. In late 2011 the engines underwent a design change to incorporate a timing chain and the heads and head gaskets were updated to correct the issue, very rarely see blown head gaskets on timing chain models. I'm partial to the outbacks with the 3.6L 6cyl. The 4cyl timing chain engines from 2011-14 suffered from excessive oil consumption.

 

[Vandy321]

The old volvo V70 wagon in that early year range is indestructible...maybe add that to the list.

 

[Centralcoastca]

Working for a tow company I see what breaks all day and I would avoid all of those. Based on my experience I would avoid anything from Europe in general based on reliability, cost of repairs and future resale value. The older Subarus were pretty good but we tow a lot of new ones, usually for electrical and traction control issues and a surprising amount of catastrophic engine damage. Anything to do with Chrysler I would personally also avoid. Of course there are exceptions and there’s always someone that has a (insert notoriously unreliable car) that’s been great for them and maybe you’d get lucky. Most of us drive Toyotas or Hondas just from seeing a whole spectrum of broken cars daily.

 

[IH8Cali]

The Subaru headgasket issue is caused by...

Thank you for that information as well, it adds some clarity to what is taking place.

I can give a little insight to Subarus...

I appreciate that insight as well. It seems that despite quite a beloved following, there is a major flaw here. Even if I found one that's been "fixed", it will need to be addressed in the future. The newer the model, the more the price climbs and the less incentive to buy. I have a couple pickups now, just looking for a more economical option. But not at the expense of essentailly an engine overhaul.

Working for a tow company

That's dang good first hand accounting there as well. I absolutely despise newer cars, I just recently got rid of a 14' Ram because of all the gadgetry on a 7 year old truck, I can only imagine what the "new" cars are like. I swore off anything newer than 2008ish. I might try and find one of those old Corolla wagons.

I'll check out those old Volvo's too, thanks for the tip Vandy. I remember a buddy in high school had his parents V70, had to be early 90's. He flogged that car mercilessly, but it was always running.

 

[puckhead]

The Subarus are simple and reliable but, yes, even if previously repaired the head gaskets will need to be re-replaced every 100-150k on the generation vehicles that suffer from failure. I know it's not a wagon but I'd be searching for a pre-2012 Honda CR-V with the 2.4L engine. In my experience they are one of the most cost-efficient, reliable vehicles ever made.

 

[Nosferatu]

I'll check out those old Volvo's too, thanks for the tip Vandy. I remember a buddy in high school had his parents V70, had to be early 90's. He flogged that car mercilessly, but it was always running.

I have a coworker who picked up a 2008-ish V70 about a year ago. Seems to be a solid car mechanically, but EVERYTHING seems to be breaking around it. He's had issues with the gauges, window actuators, headlights, the PCM and just had to replace the taillights. I know there has been other things, but that's what I can remember.

Parts are hard to come by. He waited several months for the PCM. Others he picks out of a boneyard, mostly.

 

[ewade07]

The Subarus are simple and reliable but, yes, even if previously repaired the head gaskets will need to be re-replaced every 100-150k on the generation vehicles that suffer from failure. I know it's not a wagon but I'd be searching for a pre-2012 Honda CR-V with the 2.4L engine. In my experience they are one of the most cost-efficient, reliable vehicles ever made.

Whats your take on the 2.2L engines? My 95 legacy has one it, 119k miles on it.