Longe range 338 win mag

[Bigsky108]

Hey guys, I figured this would be a great place for those with experience to shed light on this caliber for elk hunting. I know there have been countless threads discussing this caliber and it's effectiveness with many large animals including elk, but any further advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have recently gotten into elk hunting here in western Montana. I currently use a 6.5 prc for whitetail and it works great. The rifle is accurate as hell but it has risen some concerns with the guys I hunt with. I am currently shooting the berger eol 156gr at 2950 fps but they are worried it may be a little short winded where we hunt. My friend just tagged out a nice bull at 800 yards with his 300wm and has got me thinking that perhaps I should look into a new setup for specifically elk hunting. I feel the 6.5 would suffice at shorter ranges, but we spent alot of time glassing 500-800 yards across draws this weekend.

I was considering a 300prc or maybe even a rum if the price was right. But talking to my dad this evening, he mentioned that he had an old winchester model 70 in 338win mag that he'd let me use to work up some loads with. Granting I was just using some corelokt factory ammo, but it didn't seem to group super well, maybe 1.5moa at 100. Not terrible, but quite aways off from the accuracy of my other rifles.

So my question is for those that use this caliber, have you found success in handloading for your 338wm? I was also wondering if these model 70s were known to shoot submoa? Obviously it beats not having to buy a whole new gun if I were to stick with his 338, I just wonder if it can be accurate enough to pull off a potential 600-800 yard shot. I feel very confident with my 6.5 at 800 yards, but it just doesn't have enough juice for my comfort.

Thank you for your time.

 

[gphil]

I would look at the Hornady 230 eld x and berger 250 grain elite hunters. The berger at 2800fps has pretty impressive numbers. I generally use h4350 and h4831

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[adamkolesar]

A great line in inquiry re: the .338 Win Mag. Check out Nathan Foster's work at Ballisticstudies.com
He really goes into depth about terminal ballistic at long range and backs up his findings with evidence. Very interesting reading, and a great place to start.

 

[Wapiti1]

Depends on the year that M70 was made. They were generally 1.5 MOA rifles, IME. Some would do way better, but most that I've shot were 1-1.5" guns. My experience is the post 64 push feeds tend to be more accurate. They were made on newer tooling and are truer actions. The classics are more variable.

As for a .338, IMO, it's not worth looking at that bore unless you plan to go 250gr or heavier. A .30 cal will outperform a .338 in that 200-250gr area at distance due to better BC. Food for thought.

Jeremy

 

[4ester]

In my Remington I tried to get the heavier grain bullets to work (250gr Berger’s, 225 & 250 for some long range work) but the accuracy was poor. I was ready to put on a new barrel. Ended up trying a Sierra 215 GameKing SP (ugly bullets) that my neighbor recommended and it would put them in the same hole repeatedly at 2950fps. That bullet hammers elk inside 300. Haven’t really tried it farther as I have other LR rifles.


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[peaches]

Wapiti1 nailed it. The Baco 70's are very accurate.

800yds is a long shot, and 338's aren't a lot of fun to shoot. I'd look at the 7 PRC for what you want to do.

 

[Howdy Partner]

Over rated, kicking caliber.
300 wm all day.

 

[Marble]

My experience is trying to make something work ends up costing a lot of time and money. My experience with the .338 WM is it takes very heavy bullets to get decent accuracy.

I think by the time you get it figured out it still won't have the performance of a 300 WM. I have no experience with the 300 PRC, but I do have a 300 RUM. We won't even shoot that thing anymore. Even with a brake installed, it is just nasty.



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[FLATHEAD]

Yep, .300WM here too.

 

[Bigsky108]

Thanks for the all the feedback guys! Although the 338win is a legendary round, I think the general consensus is to consider a different caliber for my needs. The 7prc has some very intriguing ballistics, but I feel a 30 caliber will be making its way home with me. Time to figure out how I break this news to the wife

 

[BRTreedogs]

I don't have any idea the possibility with modern bullets. If you could even find any. Haven't seen a 338 anything in 2 plus years.
But with older bullets the 338 wm really tanked after 350. You would have to have very good drop data and an extremely accurate range.

 

[Marble]

Thanks for the all the feedback guys! Although the 338win is a legendary round, I think the general consensus is to consider a different caliber for my needs. The 7prc has some very intriguing ballistics, but I feel a 30 caliber will be making its way home with me. Time to figure out how I break this news to the wife

I would have a few cartridges in mind and be flexible on which one you end up with, then start choosing a rifle. Any of those cartridges you mentioned above are great and will work great.

There is a lot of value in getting a cartridge that is not uncommon. All reloading components are more available and in a pinch there is normally off the shelf ammo to choose from.

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[Choupique]

338 win mag is my favorite general purpose big game caliber. It isn't ideal for true long range hunting, since it doesn't have the case capacity for those long heavy low drag bullets. The accuracy issues you have with that winchester are either the rifle or the ammo. 338 win mag is often praised as being very easy to develop accurate loads for.

If 800 yards is what you see as your limit, and in actuality shoot your game at 500 yards and in most often, it's a fantastic caliber. It really shines for whacking big game at 200 yards with blunt-ish heavy bullets. I'm shooting regular flat base 230gr norma oryx out of mine and would have no hesitation shooting anything in North America out to 500 yards. I'm not sure exactly at what range it happens, but a 300 mag with pointy bullets passes up my 338 load in downrange energy somewhere around there. Both are still bringing a whole bunch with them.

300 win mag or 300 prc are the proper medicine for your needs IMO.

 

[Bush_man26]

I just took my first bull at 580 yards with a 338 wm, 210 grain ttsx and RL19 3000 fps. My gun puts holes inside of holes with this combo. Bull dropped in his tracks, bullet was a full penetration and expanded well(hit shoulder on entrance).

 

[Augie]

Personally I don't reload my .338 win mag cartridges but I'm not a ballistics junkie. About 5-6 years ago I found that Nosler trophy grade 225g shot extremely well out of my Savage compared to many other brands. Bought about 15 boxes of it while it was on sale and haven't had to purchase any since then, which I'm thankful for because I can't find it anywhere in stock these days. The majority of my hunting consists of archery or using my .30-06 so I don't go through nearly as much ammo for it. This is just my personal opinion, but don't just try to reach out at 800 yards on an animal, there's very few times I have found where an animal is 800-1200 yards away where I couldn't close the distance to 300-500 yards and have a greater chance at making a clean shot.

 

[Balderdash]

I've used a 338 win for a long time. Great cartridge. I've personally not found the recoil to be that bad, at least not compared to a 300 win mag shooting 200-220's. The recoil isn't so bad that it can't be overcome with enough practice. You just have to be committed to it.

If it were my intent to take large game animals at 800 yds and I didn't already have rigs capable and set up to do so, as others have suggested, I'd be looking to the 300 or 7mm PRC. They don't really do anything that can't be done with henceforth established cartridges that are twisted, throated, and have the mag space for heavies, but they connect all the dots in an OEM offering that can be had for a good price and they can be fed with pretty good factory ammo that Hornady so far does a decent job or supporting.

I've had a couple M70's through the years, both push and CRF. As has been reported, the push models tended to group tighter, but either way, I personally wouldn't be starting the process for a long range hunting build with one. Compared to 700 based actions and Tikkas, you're limited on aftermarket parts.

That's not to say that the M70's weren't good guns or that they won't likely give you good service. If you're happy with it in it's current guise it might worth doing some load development with it see what you can squeeze out of it. My only point was that before I'd start sticking significant funds into for aftermarket upgrades, IME, I think you'd be further ahead looking at an OEM offering that gets you what you're looking for, or, if you're going to build something, starting with a platform for which the process will likely be easier.

 

[CAElkhunter]

I would agree the 338 WM is a good short range Elk caliber but it doesn't compare to many others over 350 yds.
Inside 200yds Elk hate it. Over that I far prefer 300 WM or 300RUM which is my favorite.

 

[Balderdash]

I would agree the 338 WM is a good short range Elk caliber but it doesn't compare to many others over 350 yds.
Inside 200yds Elk hate it. Over that I far prefer 300 WM or 300RUM which is my favorite.

I'll have to go ahead and respectfully disagree with you. The 338 Win is much more than a 350 yd cartridge. I wont post up a bunch of comparative drop charts to make a point, but pick a few of the decent BC. 338 bullets and run them through your app or program. You'll see that it compares favorably with 300 mags.

I know it can be argued that energy isn't necessarily lethality, but it's no trick to get a 225 grn @ 2800 that'll still have 2k of energy at 500 yds.

 

[Dioni A]

I would just use your PRC. I've killed a bunch of deer and elk with a variety of calibers and nothing I've used kills as violently as my 6.5 PRC with 147 eld-m's. And that's from point blank to as far as 900 yards.

 

[Balderdash]

I would just use your PRC. I've killed a bunch of deer and elk with a variety of calibers and nothing I've used kills as violently as my 6.5 PRC with 147 eld-m's. And that's from point blank to as far as 900 yards.

I'm building 6.5 PRC on a Tikka right now. I don't really plan to use it on elk, but good to read first hand accounts that it gets the job done.