Long Range Hunting - the Evolution

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Mar 25, 2013
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Alberta
In this thread let’s look at PRS (Precision RIFLE Shooting) vs a new vision of competition that would more closely follow the limitations/rules/laws we now further understand a fifth of the way into this century, and have probably defined better here (in a roundabout way) on this next level forum about Long Range & Western Hunting than anywhere else? PRS has a NRL division trying to mimic the hunt game closer but still not close enough to make more productive for both hunters and competitors. Let’s call it LRWH for now (Long Range & Western Hunting) but I’d be open to all sorts of catchier and marketable naming conventions as that one is boring.

The goal being to maximize the performance possible on game afield outside of hunting seasons while minimizing any cross-discipline methods and gear that can benefit only the very few. And…still maintaining the carrot for the ultra-competitive who like to compete against others but equally to those who'd mostly just compete against themselves, the real-world training for Long Range Hunting for those who care more about that, so the fun and incentive is there for all.

Let us then imagine a competition format that was 50-600 yards, life size targets, with actual size kill zone flappers. You get 1 shot only per target and it’s timed. Kills only count for 1 point, then time to kill ranked in brackets counts for additional points, might have to play with that a bit but assume 3 brackets, fastest bracket gets 6 points (think mpbr speeds and not many getting 6’s consistently, elite difficulty level), next is 4 and the final is 2. Maybe speed would need 5 points categories…feel free to add inputs. There would be only 2 divisions and then 2 sub-divisions within. 1. Solo and 2. Big Spoon Little Spoon, this would best reflect both Rokslide and Solo/Pairs Backcountry Elite Western Hunters. Then the two sub-divsions within would be; 1. Pre-Rolled & Factory Rifle and 2. Roll Your Own & Custom Rifle. The rifle requirements are the same across the board. 10 lbs including anything attached to it(bipods/tripods etc.), realistically commonly packed gear into the backcountry. Packs allowed and likely to be primary rest, but no other types of abnormal rests that would be seen outside of what hunters will drag afield. 2 lb trigger pull minimum, 26” barrel length maximum. All big game targets actual size, plus one actual size coyote with 3-4” flapper (placed between 450-600) for the bonus prizes and bragging rights. 80% of pot to Solo class and 20% to Big Spoon Little Spoon class. Solo class runs first, to encourage all people to be proficient and up their game, Big Spoon Little Spoon class runs right after or next day for the pairs to have a little fun and grab more chances and bragging rights.

Edit; and only 5 shots to zero check when you get to the match (up to 250 yards given). No more than 15 shots per round. That means you could do one round including zero check on a single box of ammo. The pressure to the first cold bore shot in time being paramount. What would closer resemble actual Long Range Hunting in a competition than this example? FEEL FREE TO ADD IDEAS!

Now let’s try to imagine the development of gear/methods to become top dogs in this and the true benefits this competition would lend to actual Long Range Hunting! Feel free to process this out and start initial planning of, and start listing what cartridges, rifles, scopes, etc. would excel in this more realistic format that a broader range of hunters may be attracted to? What would you build right now to suit that competition in both pre-rolled and roll your own categories, and why? This is meant to be a hypothetical fun thread…so have fun. Poke fun at me, or play along, or both, all good by me.

I’m pretty sure we don’t have to get into the why’s of how this thread has come to be but in round about ways through discussions on this forum, almost all of us has inputs to this, the information is available if you data mine the shizzle out of it…it’s really good info! Some brilliant and unbelievably experience hunters and shooters here. Cough…kidding, that’s me poking fun at me.

We have come to bear out here that there is far more to the ‘Hunting’ component of ‘Long Range Hunting’ than just the gear and prep. We have identified that there are natural limitations/laws/rules that go beyond a lot of what is currently available in shooting gear and methods. I believe we have identified 3 basic limitations all coinciding to have the majority of hunters end up at a universal understanding or competency afield of ‘Long Range Hunting’ and in no particular order are; 1. Practical human limitations of field accuracy in relation to big game kill zone sizes(regardless how tight a rifle shoots, 1.5 moa or less rot to 600), 2. environmental limitations (mostly wind, in relation to kill zone sizes), 3. TOF limitations coinciding with dynamic living targets (which coincidentally mirror bowhunting limitations…1/2-3/4 second TOF range). These all seem to converge at the same general point and everything else done beyond this is past the point of diminishing returns that only very few can or will cross over to consistently kill big game animals beyond.

I think this idea would still give all the warm and fuzzies and incentives to a broader range of the obsessives here. It would open the door and flexibility to address some of those concerns from the other threads about shooting competitions. Ie; time/affordability/psychological/competitiveness/social/loaner bagger vance types etc. And to condense more of the right kind of practice for what we ultimately care about most.

And just because I’m me and this is the perfect time of year to reflect, poke, solve the world’s problems, and have a little fun…here’s a little quote I came up with;

‘I caught the PRS Crowd, I caught them all, let’s see what happens, nobody else could’ve done that but me.’ ;)

This verbal puke was born here at Rokslide and you all contributed so run with it or not lol, critique, add ideas, add gear talk, play along…bring it all on. Or not. It's all hypothetical at this point and at the perfect time of year to play with it.
 
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OP
S
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
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Alberta
I get it, lotta money and time tied up in the one, not saying you would have to give that up. Keep the security blanky but don't be chicken to play along here. Bock Bock. C'mon...what would your rigs look like and why? Some thoughts on the time brackets? Take your time. I'll understand if no one wants to play. I'm genuinely curious what your thoughts are on what gear you would choose for this hypothetical exercise.
 
Joined
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I like it. It would be hard to make equipment rules that “long range hunters” could agree on. I’m very happy to lug around my 10.5lb rifle, bipod, 1lb rear bag, and this year a heavier tripod to shoot from in the field. I’ve also been very effective at using my equipment to make shots easily, that a few years ago I would have never considered. Some might consider my gear/weight excessive…but it’s what I’ve found to work for everything from point-blank off hand to “long range”.

Making stages that would self-regulate in a way might help that. A 15 second timed, 75-100 yard off hand only shot would be tough to do with a 16lb PRS rig! My rifle is *almost* too heavy to shoot well offhand; it’s a fine line for me. And slowing down the clock for a 650 yard, 8in vital target cross canyon where you have time to find a good rest, make a good wind call, etc. In the field I almost always have more time than I think. Have yet to not kill something because I was too slow.
 

Macintosh

WKR
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Feb 17, 2018
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I like the idea, but the practicality isnt there. Two points born from my own experience hunting and practicing for hunting (including via prs)
1) just when I think I have an idea of how to set up a match stage to force the solution to a scenario im trying to replicate, someone who is really good at shooting comes along and shows me whats really possible. Example, I never thought it would be possible to walk up, find a target, range it, deploy a tripod from their pack and attach rifle to it, dial solution and hit target in FAR less time than I thought possible. To a large degree banning specific equipment prevents new or different solutions for the same situation, which to a degree means it prevents learning.
2) running matches is a TON of work, and people dont come to shoot 15 rounds, they come to shoot 100+. I might suggest that you swallow your pride a little and go shoot some local PRS matches with your gear, the way you want. Nothing is stopping you as it is today. Better yet bring your friends. You might find that you are welcomed, maybe even encouraged to help with a stage or three in the future. Shooting is shooting even though there are differences, and if you didnt come away having a good time and both learned and tought something Id be shocked.
 
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Justin Crossley

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Feb 25, 2012
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@Macintosh, you are spot on with my experience as well. I thought I knew all I needed to when I had a solid bipod and a rear rest of some sort. Then I shot a couple of competitions, and I was blown away by everything I learned. PRS type comps are fun and, if done as you described, can be great practice for hunting.

NRL Hunter competitions are even better. They aren't perfect by any means, but they are the best hunting simulation I've personally ever seen or heard of.

This is what a stage is like for those who don't know. Everything is done on a four-minute timer.
Each stage consists of "four targets" which could be actually four targets from one position, two targets from two positions, or one target from four positions.

  1. Walk up to blind staging area, rifle in hand, all gear stowed in pack.
  2. On go, you walk/run a short distance to bring the field of fire into view.
  3. Stop at the shooting area and begin glassing to find from one to four targets.
  4. Range the target/targets and determine your shooting solution.
  5. Get into position and shoot up to two shots at each of the four targets/postions. You move on to the next target/position if you hit on your first shot or shoot two shots. So, you shoot between four to eight shots, depending on hits/misses.
  6. Clean up your gear and walk to the next stage to repeat.
Ranges are about 100 yards to 1000 yards which is great since it forces you to practice farther than most people will actually shoot at big game.
 
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